TheTrustedMechanic

I don't get too many requests for extended warranty work but I agree with Bell Road Automotive. Further than that, when I call the customer with the warranty company's determination I encourage them to call the warranty company if the authorization doesn't seem right or fair. As for a horror story, my last experience with an extended warranty company was on a transmission and it was with American Auto Shield (just one of many names the company goes by) and I will NOT deal with them or CARS again. First they wanted to send an adjuster, no problem. Then the adjusted called to establish a time frame in which he could come look at the car, no problem. I am a one man shop and close for lunch between 1:00 and 2:00. The adjuster left a message saying he would be here no later than 1:00, possible problem. I left the shop at 1:16 and he had not arrived. When I called the warranty company to find out what had happened they told me that the adjuster's notes said he was here at 1:06 and the shop was closed after confirming that lunch was between 12:00-1:00. BIG PROBLEM!!!!! Remember, I have the voicemail message saying he'd be here BEFORE 1:00. The warranty company allowed me to submit the proof they were seeking but then couldn't accept/open/convert an iPhony video (really?). Anyway, we went through the whole ordeal and then they told me they would only approve what THEY could buy the transmission for. We all know how that goes, the cheapest garbage they can find regardless of miles. I refused and that's pretty much where the ordeal ended. The customer did not have the money to pay any additional over the cut rate that the warranty company approved but she needed it fixed so she could trade it in. Warranty companies have their agenda and it is NOT to pay out more than they take in. Can you as a shop owner blame them? They aren't fair often to the customer or to the shop demanding we use inferior quality parts, but they don't care. They expect us to provide the warranty after that so they are done with the liability or expect the extended warranty to expire before the USED UP part fails again. Again, how is this wrong for a company that is simply playing the numbers? Don't we do the same thing with our warranties and how we factor them into our hourly rates? Extended warranty companies appear to be evil and they certainly do work in evil, unscrupulous and unethical ways. But they offer a contract and the customer accepts that contract, Like Kind & Quality and all. I think the problem comes in by the repair shop not adequately informing their customers IN ADVANCE that the warranty company will NOT cover everything and likely will NOT perform in a way that the customer is expecting. We do not need to accept the risk and danger to our reputations, but these are often our existing customers who trust us, who like us, who want to do business with us. Education is the key, educate them up front that you will do everything you can to get as much covered as possible, but that there will most likely be things that the warranty company won't pay that they should pay. For example, my state of Michigan used to charge sales tax on core values but I had one extended warranty company tell me that they would not. And it was not an insignificant core amount either. I explained that to the customer, the customer called and complained and the warranty company finally relented and covered the sales tax because the customer induced them to investigate the law. Thankfully now we don't have to charge sales tax on the cores unless there is no core returned.

How so? Some demand to send an adjuster, but how is that any different than having the customer want to come in to see what you found wrong? Did you want to avoid accountability?

A radio on in the background can be "tuned out" and isn't front and center in the techs' minds. But the earbuds are specifically for their attention and will interfere with their doing their jobs safely. Your techs may complain and resist, but at the end of the day, you are the one who pays for any injuries or damage (including through your insurance) because their attention was not fully on the job you are paying them for. Regarding cellphones and facebook/ebay/craigslist/etc. NO! Just simply NO! If they need to make a phone call or take a phone call for an emergency or an urgency then it should be on the shop phone. Too many distractions or opportunities for malfeasance if they are allowed to "play on their phones." Some of those emergencies or urgencies they have may be personal matters they have to attend to, such as doctor's appointments or a plumber for the leaking drain pipe or a roofer, kids' schools or daycare, etc. that can only be handled during business hours and not during their lunch. Oh, and ABSOLUTELY NO CELLPHONES ON TEST DRIVES unless it's been approved first (you know those situations when there is a possibility that they may need to call for a tow).

I was taught when I was first starting out in this business, DO NOT adjust the mirrors, the seat or the radio/climate control unless you absolutely have to. Such as, me being 6 foot tall and having customers whose seat is so close to the dashboard that my leg simply does not fit between the seat and dash. Or, if you have to turn off the radio/fan in order to hear a noise. And, of course if it is imperative for you to adjust the mirrors so you can see in the mirrors wile driving. I would impose and enforce the same with employees. I've gotten pretty good at driving and moving to see out of the mirrors when driving customers' vehicles.

Not to mention if they want to get a bank loan or a credit card or anything that might depend on their "income." Sure, it might feel nice to have that "extra cash," but anyone who wants to or is willing to work "under the table, " or "off the books" is really cheating themselves, including shop owners who skim the cash payments and only report what has a paper trial, ie checks and credit card receipts. I mean, cash payments aren't that big of a piece of the pie, are they? So, what's the big deal if I take the cash from quick jobs, it's not hurting anyone is it? (For the record, all italics are meant SARCASTICALLY and I am in no way advocating it.)

And just how do you "ask" the server to perform those tasks or get data from it or store data to it? You seem awfully argumentative and too eager to try and prove your point when you are only make specious claims. But, you do you and I will protect my data as I see fit. Since you are endeavoring to ignore reality, logic and only argue. Because there were numerous articles citing specific examples and they were so easy to find regarding hacked cloud servers, this discussion with you is moot because you continue to refuse to admit to reality. For just one example, Reuters reported, "August 27, 20216:06 PM EDTUpdated 2 years ago SAN FRANCISCO, Aug 26 (Reuters) - Microsoft (MSFT.O) on Thursday warned thousands of its cloud computing customers, including some of the world's largest companies, that intruders could have the ability to read, change or even delete their main databases, according to a copy of the email and a cyber security researcher." Then there was another article from CyberTalk - dot - org that cited 5 major could server security breaches in 2021 as well. What is even scarier, according to a search for "are cloud servers hacked 2023" and a resulting article from tech - dot - co, there have been 37 data breaches of varying significance or severity (cyber attacks) on cloud servers in 2023 so far and another 72 in 2022. These ranged from fast food companies to healthcare to big pharma all the way up to the government (a smallish department as well as the House of Representatives). And, if a tech company like Farcebook or even Western Digital can be hacked, so to can Tekmetric, Shop Ware, Protractor, Micthell1, Auto Leap, and Shop Boss, google docs, Microshaft and many others. At the risk of being overly brusque, since you are desperate to prove yourself right when you aren't, refuse to admit that you are wrong and are unwilling to admit to the facts and reality and claim things that simply are not true,at least not to the extent that you are pretending, this discussion is pointless. I have provided facts to back up my position and after this, I am done with this discussion. I refuse to engage in an endeavor where the other party is seeking to beat me with experience. I hope you have a blessed day.

I am not sure what or who has told you that you will have to house servers, but I think they are trying to scare you into buying their program. Depending on your setup and business size/# of locations, your "Server" could be nothing more than your desktop computer. Properly configured a simple desktop computer with moderate hardware (CPU speed, # of processors, memory, etc.) can be your "Server" and you could connect as many "clients" or satellite computers to it as you have in your shop. One thing to consider when "going on the cloud" is you do NOT own your data, period, full stop. Why is this important? Because if you were to stop paying that company for access to YOUR DATA that THEY OWN, you will lose all of it. Meanwhile, most local installation (on your shop computer's hard drive) programs will have some kind of legacy access. Meaning, if you change programs and no longer pay them the subscription fee, you can still access the data, just with very limited rights, such as view and print customer information/invoices only. Other local programs, like the old desktop QuickBooks, once you buy the program, you own it and it will work forever (at least until you have a catastrophic hardware failure) and will always have access to your data. On the cloud, once you as the cash cow stop paying the cloud company, you lose access. Although I guess some will allow you limited access for a short period of time afterward, it's not in perpetuity like a local installation. And one last consideration of you do not own your data, no matter what their "Privacy Policy" says, they have every legal right to access any of your data, mine it, sell it, use it, delete it, modify it, do anything they want to with it. Most won't do anything with your data that is evident to you but they will certainly be able to mine it, use it, sell it anyway, anytime and to anyone they want and you won't be the wiser. This is not conspiracy theory, this is actual fact and legal, because "They who own the server, own the data." I am currently reviewing new SMS systems so that is how I found this thread. Although it's not very informative, as most queries like these aren't either.

I agree with you, in too many markets it is very hard for a shop to specialize. In fact, in my town there are no strictly transmission shops anymore. The only one that even advertises "transmissions" is a general repair shop that started off as a transmission only shop and then had to expand their services. We have 3 "import specialty" shops and only one is truly import only with another having a very high percentage being "European" imports and the 3rd is now pretty much a G/R shop. In Northern Michigan Subarus are a big deal and there is a Subaru only shop but as for single make or "sister" makes like Honda/Acura, Toyota/Lexus, etc. there are none. All others are G/R shops because that is all the local market will support. Even when the customer goes to the dealer sometimes that level of specialization isn't enough to solve their problem. Sometimes "Most Car Makes, Most Car Models" comes in handy too. I had a Lexus RX come in for a "lack of power" complaint. They had taken it to two different independent repair shops and "the dealer" (I think it was actually a Toyota dealer) and no one could figure it out. It would sometimes bog down and have no power taking off and when you were coming to a stop it would sometimes act like the brakes went out. Those were the customer's explanations. I think most experienced techs will have a very good idea of the root problem. I am a one man shop and I shuttled the customer and her attendant to a nearby coffee shop in the customer vehicle. I pretty much knew the cause before we got to the coffee shop. This was a Lexus but most of the "Most Car Makes, Most Car Models" shops have encountered the GM trucks and their false ABS activation issues. A review of the WSS signals just like with the GM trucks proved that one of the front WSSs was slow to start a signal and early to drop to zero thus confirming the lack of power was traction control and the "brakes go out" feeling was the ABS activating. Why the dealer didn't figure it out is beyond me, but I had the entire diagnosis completed with two test drives and a brief inspection on the hoist. The customer thought I was a genius because I figured out what 3 other shops could not. All because I am a "Most Car Makes, Most Car Models" shop. But you are 100% correct that as a "Most Car Makes, Most Car Models" shop, I am often not as productive as I could be if I dealt with just a few highly repetitive jobs. But that is the state of the local economy, too few opportunities to specialize and survive.

Personally, I don't want the caliber of clientele, aka consumers, who would come in from social media, self-absorbed and narcissistic. Yes, I know this is a general notion and that there are many people who are not that way. Maybe it's the 80/20 rule, 80% will be great, 20% will be the ones who consume you. Consider this, if you run your own social media campaign, how much will it cost you to have a presence on all of the social media platforms that are out there and that are emerging? Consider this, if you hire an outside firm to do your social media marketing, what caliber will it be? How much will that cost you and how often will the posts be made? Consider this, if you were to advertise in every possible online forum, outlet, social media page and search engine, how much time will it take you to make sure you are on all of them and how much will it cost you to make sure you have a compelling presence? ONLY those who have a vested interest in separating a shop owner from their money through advertising will ever argue that we must advertise or have a presence in any specific arena or site. Other than that, how a shop owner markets their business will depend on the caliber of clientele they want. Any shop owner who has been around understands that there are good advertising investments and bad ones. That shop owner also understands that new is not always better and that the tried and true may eventually falter. The shop owner also knows that what worked last week might not work today but might work fantastically next week. Bottom line is, YES! We can ignore social media but we do so at our peril and have to find other avenues of marketing to replace the worthless (and expensive) "Spaghetti at the wall" advertising of social media. Social media marketing is not just posting to your account once a week and hoping people see it in their feeds and don't just scroll on by, because that is what most do. But the likes of farcebook and TWITter and the like will tell you that you had 80 bazillion gazillion "views," even though the user just scrolled right past your ad or post. Why don't shops advertise on billboards, those are seen by people who own cars, right? Why don't shops advertise with matchbooks anymore? Social media is seen by people who own cars, who don't own cars, who don't own anything but a phone, but it's somehow valuable to advertise to those people? ONLY to those who have a vested interest in selling advertising and marketing. If a shop is big enough to support a full-time social media person, go for it. But to pay someone other than an employee to create and publish your social media posts and then to pay to "boost" your impressions gets VERY costly and for what kind of return?

I am located in a building that houses 5, soon to be 4 other businesses and my landlord bought the building about 4 years ago to base their two businesses in, so buying the building will not likely be available for purchase. I am located in Traverse City, MI. My rent for a 2000 sq. ft. space is only $1058/mo. so any purchase will be far more expensive on a monthly basis but still my desire.

This may sound brusque but I have my reasons, you are welcome to have your opinion about buying new vs used and such, but please understand that I have my reasons and contribute accordingly, please. I only write this because I know how some strings of comments can go. But, to my query and I truly and sincerely appreciate everyone’s opinion, professional experience and reasons in their answers. I am wanting/needing to replace my current truck. I made a mistake buying it, but I did. I have a 2021 Toyota Tacoma Limited that I absolutely hate and is the biggest POS I have ever owned and that includes the Suburban that puked a motor a month after I bought it used. I would really prefer a mid-sized truck but given my domestic situation I also want to replace my small but very nice camper trailer with something a little bit bigger, so my girlfriend and I have more room and comfort. Anything decent weighs in the 7000 + CGVW range topping out around 9000 for what we would likely want. So that puts the mid-sized out of the picture since most are limited to 7000 or slightly over. Fuel economy is also very important, but I know that a full-sized truck will not be great. I was spoiled with my 2018 Colorado Centennial Edition which would regularly return 22+ on trips on the expressway and 24+ on rural highways. But the transmission was one of those 8 speed beasts that did more shuddering that shifting so it was replaced by this POS Tacoma on the strong recommendation of a friend who had owned 3 Tacomas over the years and currently had a 2020. To make matters worse, besides the dismal fuel economy, it won’t break 19 mpg on the expressway, it shudders too. Okay, this is getting long but you have the background and needs for a new truck. I would prefer a new as opposed to used for some reason. What trucks would you recommend or recommend staying away from? Decreasing the pool of possible candidates is the very strong desire to have a moonroof. An integrated brake control system would be nice but not necessary since I have a very nice Tekonsha unit now. I am not a fan of Chrysler products but I am also looking for something to buy and keep for an extremely long period of time. Thank you to all who read and respond, I a truly grateful.

I regrettably still rent but with a fantastic landlord. Property in my area has always been crazy expensive and unless I want to move across town and out of town, there is nothing that is zoned industrial (required for auto repair where I am). With that said, I am always wanting to buy because of the dozen or so repair shops that have gone up for sale over the last 20 years, I know of only two that actually sold and both had property. The rest were buying a job basically where they had no property, just the business, equipment and customer database. So, I know I own a job, not a business and I know that my retirement is not very secure, but it is what it is because of where I am. But it makes me a good living and I guess I will make the best of it and try to position myself for purchase should something come up. But, buy is the only way to go after you are established. When you're starting out, renting is probably the best/cheapest way to go.

Most doctors'/dentists' offices in my area do not charge for missed appointments unless its a habit and you don't call first. But calling to reschedule even the day of usually does not result in a charge. Likewise, you make a haircut appointment and don't make it, do you have to pay for the one you missed before you can make another one? It's frustrating but it happens and we have to live with it. With that said, I had one customer who claimed she only trusted me, wouldn't go anywhere else and had to have me work on her car. She was lazy and a flake. She claimed medical issues but even when I would call her the day before and she was enthusiastic and adamant that she would be there and then I'd call her hours before her appointment she would still either be 30-60 minutes late or not show up at all. Finally I got fed up with it, I had tried everything else so I finally told her she would have to prepay for her appointment before I would schedule it. I told her if she didn't make it within 15 minutes of the appointment time, she would forfeit the labor portion and have to pay again before I would reschedule. She agreed once and made it 20 minutes late. I let it go and did the work. The next time it was the same thing, you have to pay for the appointment up front and if you are more than 15 minutes late, you lose the labor portion. She was almost an hour late and then argued that she couldn't make it on time. I stuck to my guns and held her to the agreement she had made. I refunded nothing and she didn't have me do the work. This was the last time I saw her but she did call a couple times years later. I hated to do it, but I was tired of losing 2 or 3 hours because she would not show up for her appointments. Since she did have multiple medical conditions (none that prevented her from getting around when SHE wanted to) I turned the tables on her and asked if she was ever late for a doctors' appointment and before she answered I asked her, if you're late do they still take you and put off all their other patients who arrived on time and kept their appointments? She was like, "Yeah, but," and I cut her off before she could make up a lie. Get used to people not showing up, it's frustrating but it is a part of running a business where you work on a schedule. When people call me to cancel, I am always friendly and nice and I respond with, "I am sad that I won't get to serve you, but thank you for calling to cancel. Now I know that you won't be in, I can use that time to serve someone else and I am sure they would thank you too." It reinforces that their actions affect not only me but other people as well and that their thoughtfulness in showing me the respect of cancelling is appreciated.

I always wonder why people are so eager to sacrifice so much for the new and shiny. I acknowledge that we have little privacy anymore. But it is exactly this attitude of ANYTHING for that shiny new bauble or "cheaper" option. But with cloud systems you do NOT own the data, you create it and the cloud server company owns it and licenses you access to it. the server owner has the legal right to mine any data on their servers anytime they want for any reason they want and use/sell it anyway they want. large data centers are a far bigger target for DNS or ransom attacks than your local network. A local installation, meaning on your machines, all of that data is yours, only yours and can only be used by your permission. And don't think for one minute that that end user license agreement or "privacy" policy that you agreed to but never read protects you, your customers or in any way stands up for your interests over the server owner. This is not conspiracy theory, this is fact and law. I'll keep my SMS off the cloud. The only way it fails is if my machine fails or the electricity goes out which is true with the cloud as well. Whereas if your server farm is hit with ransom ware, guess what Bunky, your data is not available and may never be. Do ahead, keep thinking the convenience is the only aspect, that there is no downside, but ask Jasper or Caterpillar or any of the other mega-corps or municipalities or hospitals that get hit with ransom ware attacks about the downsides. That big server farm is a more lucrative target than a 1 or 2 or 5 or 30 location repair shop's IT.

I looked into Tabs AutoFluent a couple years ago and was highly impressed. I even signed up and bought the data conversion service. However I would not use the system or "play around" with their demo database until my data was converted and I could use my own data. The two could not be merged. So a week from the expiration of my trial period I was told my data still wasn't being worked on to be converted. I gave them an ultimatum, either extend my trial period starting on the date my data was delivered to me to use in their system or refund my money. They refunded my money. I was disappointed but I was not going to run dual systems or double enter my R.O.s. If I was going to use and "try" AutoFluent I was going to do it live and for real, adding to my exisiting customer database not losing all of it once the past data was finally converted. I was really excited at the prospect of what they promised they could do. But they didn't deliver in a way that I could actually try it out in real life.

I don't really know what heading to put this under, but I see this as a marketing advantage. I am the first shop in my area to have a no-charge loaner car program, but now I am one of two. So it's really a marketing advantage, so here I am, posting under Advertising and Promotions. I am in the process of replacing my loaner car. I would like real world advice from my fellow techs and shop owners. We all have our preferences and we all see certain vehicles in our shops more than others. Shop A might see very few imports while Shop B might see a mix. So Shop B could have more insight into what imports have problems and what those problems might be than Shop A. Okay, now the conditions I have for my loaner, I have wanted a minivan since I put my first loaner into service. I have had a very few customers decline the use of the loaner because they needed more than 5 passenger seating. I have had customers decline the loaner car because their driveway was uphill and we are in Northern Lower Michigan where snow is a consideration, so I have wanted AWD too. My first loaner was a Mercury Sable, replaced by an immaculately maintained Honda CRV so I at least got the AWD I wanted, even though it was not a important while I have had it as it was when I had the Sable. I know that anything I have will be a compromise for my customers at times. Even if I had a car, a truck, a minivan and a full-sized van, all with AWD, chances are the specific one the customer would want would be out, so compromise it will be. That and I am too small to float the expense of too many loaner cars. So what I am asking is, within the following parameters, what would each of you recommend for a reliable, low cost of ownership vehicle? What would you put into your fleet if you were working within my parameters? I want to spend about $10,000 No new vehicle leases NO, and I mean NO European brand/influenced models AWD would be preferable but not required Easy to understand operation of such things as lights, windows, ignition, etc. My current CR-V has window switches on the dashboard instead of the door, the ignition has that funny turn-off, stop, push in and turn to lock and the rear hatch has to have the glass released then the door opens like a door. All of this confuses some customers. My average loaner car usage is between 6,000-8500 miles a year so a higher mileage specimen would not be out of the question. Thank you for all for your time and suggestions.

I like a lot of what you wrote. From the way you structured your scenario that I replied to, it sounded like you did all that work and then handed them the bill. I couldn't figure out at what points you contacted the customer for additional approval. For my misunderstanding I apologize, but I NEVER intended any disrespect. I agree that documentation and explanation are key. My best customer is the educated customer. Not college or higher learning, but the one who is aware of what I have done, what needs to be done and why it needs to be done to achieve their objective of a safe and reliable car. I feel it is my job to educate them on these topics so they can make an educated decision that hopefully is the best decision for them and their family. So documentation is key. You really caught my eye with your line, "When you treat someone like a friend and respect their hard earned money..." because that is exactly how I treat my customers. I work hard for my money and demand value for what I spend. I expect to provide the same to my customers. And above all, I fully realize that I am spending my customer's money when I recommend a repair. I understand Genuine's position and I fought the same fight, people claimed they didn't have any money. And during the recession or the beginning months of the year, that is true, many people are barely getting by. But building a relationship, if you can, is the key. Out of 100 customers through the door, you might only retain 20 and only 10 become long-term customers. But building relationships and adamantly demanding honesty, knowing when to turn down a job because it's not "right" is the best way to conduct business I believe. We all hear, "But I'm going to be selling the car soon," as a ploy to get us to 'band-aid' a repair. What happens when we do? A year later the customer comes back with, "But you just FIXED it." But did you really fix it or did you just band-aid it so they could sell the car like they swore they were going to do? Or you put the cheapest part on because anything was better than the bad on that was on the car. One year warranty you tell them but that won't matter because they are going to sell the car. Two years later they come back, "But you just put that on, now it's bad again. I shouldn't have to pay for it again because YOU put a cheap part on." It took me about 3 years to finally figure out how to call the "But I'm selling it" customer a liar without being offensive and to REFUSE to do anything but, "The right job, the right way, at a fair and honest price." Now when I hear that line, unless there is literally a For Sale sign in the window, I do NOT believe it and I NEVER compromise my quality and integrity in order to meet their expected low price point. I have built a reputation and most of my customers simply say, "Fix it, I trust you." But that is of course after I explain, what went wrong, why it needs THIS specific repair and how much it will cost. But the bottom line is, I hope you did not feel that I was disrespecting you, or if you did that you understand now that I was not. I just didn't know where in your scenario you made your calls for additional time and repairs.

@CAR_AutoReports With all due respect can I ask how you can run the clock and then hand them the bill? I am not saying you are doing anything wrong or shouldn't do as you do, I like how you do it. But do you just have the customer sign a blank check or do you have them approve a couple hours and then have them approve more time as needed? Here in Michigan we have to have a signed work order authorizing a certain amount and if we exceed that amount we must have verified approval of an additional amount. Unlike a plumber or carpenter or doctor we can't just do the work, hand the bill and expect to get paid regardless of what the amount is. If we want to charge for 6 hours we must either write the estimate/work order at the outset or get approval along the way. I'm just wondering how you handle the approval process if there is one.

I have always wanted to ask this customer, "And did they fix the problem? If so why are you here?" Because you know that the shop either did NOT waive the fee or they didn't fix the problem or they don't want to deal with this customer any longer. I have also wanted to ask the customer who asks me if I do "Free Inspections" if they are willing to work at their job and not get paid for it. If you think about it, the customer is really our boss, on an average day we will have 2 or 3 or 5 "bosses". What they are telling us here is that they want us to do work for them for free. But let their boss ask them to come in and work for an hour or two and not get paid for it and what do you think their answer will be?

Not being a smart-A, but can you give an example of how you think we add value to the brake job so we can charge more? If the dealer is offering OE pads and rotors, it's not in the quality of the part, because the customer still sees OE as higher quality, just more expensive. We can't offer it necessarily on warranty, because the dealer offers a warranty too. So just what do you think that we add to the equation that the dealer does not? I know my customers prefer my shop over the dealers or national chains because of the personal relationship. They are dealing with the owner and my sense of morals and ethics not a soulless business operating under "business ethics." "Because we add value" is a nice buzzword phrase, but as Genuine wrote, most customers simply do not care, they look at the bottom line. Yes we need to build a sense of value in their minds, but just how do you propose to do it? Not theoretical, abstract, generic allusions, but specific examples please.

@GENUINE - I work with JustTheBest and I can tell you that he knows what he is talking about, but I also know that you are 100% correct. Good customers are not everywhere, some places do have too much low-ball competition and there simply are not enough good customers to go around in some areas. You presented your REAL WORLD facts and JustTheBest presented fancy buzzwords but you are both right. For example, on the point of Henry Ford, his words were correct, but he operated a business on a far grander scale than most of us will ever achieve. And that gave him great opportunities that we will never have. I know two things from experience, 1) You will get a lot of "hate" and negative feedback telling you that you are wrong, that you can change your situation and your customers if you want to, if you try hard enough, if you put in enough effort, if you try this latest fad advertising. 2) I have been exactly where you are and deal with exactly what you express that you deal with. I have overcome some of it, but some of it I simply do not have the means, methods, opportunities or privileges to use to overcome. So in some ways, I can, in other ways, like you, through situation and circumstance, I simply can't. Not because I think I can't but because I do not have the means, opportunities or privileges to do so. For example. let's say even though you own your property, let's say you are renting, as I am, even if you wanted to move and you have the money to move and the bank approval for a purchase price that is at a level that is competitive, ALL of that is you thinking that you CAN, However, if there is no property available to buy that will allow your repair shop business (in my community it is not only "industrial" zoning but it also has to be approved for auto repair) then you CAN'T. You CAN'T not because you think you can't but because you do not have the privilege or opportunity. Sure, you "can" move your shop 100 miles away where there are buildings for sale, but that is not a wise opportunity or truly feasible unless you truly want to start over from scratch. However that was of little concern to Henry Ford, he didn't have to move his family or his business, he just moved a manufacturing facility or a dealership or an office complex, he moved a fraction of the operation, not the entire operation. That is where you are 100% correct, "The pie in the sky Apple, Starbucks, etc philosophy just doesn't always work, not at the small level of most independent repair shops. At least not here." And no matter how accurate JustTheBest and Henry are, it does not apply and does not change anything in your situation. I have worked with JTB for several years and he and I have disagreed on things and I had doubted other things would work but tried them anyway. The things I tried usually worked and had positive ROIs, some much to my surprise. Some didn't work very well (only X/10% ROI positive) while others worked extremely well and were 10, 20, 30x ROI positive. I have flat out refused to try some things because they cut against my personal beliefs. While I would not say they were dishonest, they were not consistent with who I am. Other things I have declined to try simply because they are not conducive to my business, like pushing LOFs HARD. I lose money on every one compared to selling that rack time for a full rate parts & labor job since I am a one man shop. If I was a big enough operation to have a dedicated LOF rack and tech, it would be a different deal, but I am not. So I "can" push LOF's hard and fill my day with oil changes, but I CAN'T make any money at them. That is not me thinking I can't that is just cold hard reality, Just like it is with you in your situation. So I suggest you "man up," put your flame suit on and be prepared to get torched with all these "The pie in the sky Apple, Starbucks, etc" philosophers. Not all are that way, but enough are and they are happy to tell you, "You can, but only if you are willing to work hard enough," not recognizing that you are working hard enough, you just don't have the right resources to draw from or build with. Others will tell you, "I was in your shoes, this is what I did and it will work for you, but only if you do it EXACTLY AS I DID." You and I both know that just because it worked in their shop doesn't mean it will work with yours. But there is still a great deal of knowledge here and JustTheBest has a lot of great ideas and systems to try, some you will stick with, others you might try and decide you either don't have the time to work or the interest in spending the money for help to do. But don't give up. You can't get blood from a turnip, but that doesn't mean you can't make it into a decent meal.

@dfrisby I agree 100%. In your situation, with this customer, I probably would have done exactly the same.

@dfrisby You can always find a reason to install customer supplied parts and examples of how it works out. But in the end, it is nothing but a problem. What if this customer, after you installed the hood release cable and then quoted the other work, he asked to buy those parts and have you install them too? Where does it end? When I first opened I thought I would win customers by agreeing to install their parts the first time. I can't remember the only customer who converted from parts supplied to parts buyer. With that said, I will install certain parts for certain customers, such as the one who wanted a back-up camera and monitor that was a gift from a family member or the fellow with the 1960 Thunderbird that needs a wiper switch that he has already purchased. But the person who calls up and asks, "How much to install tie rod ends? I already bought the parts." is a BIG no!

I used to stock Interstate batteries. NAPA tried soliciting my business with a free battery rack with a 10 circuit maintainer if I changed. Because I had been very happy with Interstate batteries I declined. But not a month later warranties started coming back. Within 2 months I had replaced no less than 10 Interstate batteries that were less than 3 years old, most were around 2 years old. My final straw with Interstate was when the route driver told me that only one of the batteries was actually faulty, that two just weren't charged fully. I knew that was B.S. First their branded battery tester was nothing more than a Midtronics MDX-300 with a built in printer, my tester was the MDX-350P with printer, so it was the exact same test protocol. Second one of the batteries he told me was good but not fully charged had been charged with my Snap-On computerized battery charger that has a programming mode. I fully charged the battery overnight and left it disconnected from the van for about 6 hours before testing. The battery tested bad. When a battery tests bad, I always disconnect it and test it again right on the terminals or with lead test posts. When Interstate wouldn't admit their failed batteries I decided to rid myself of the problem. Thankfully my local NAPA jobber pulled some favors and got me the free rack with maintainer and put in NAPA Legend batteries. I have had them in stock for more than 3 years, always sold NAPA batteries when I didn't have Interstate batteries in stock and I have had no more than 12 NAPA battery warranties in 14 years of business. My only complaint is that the pro-rata warranty is ridiculous. Many times by the 5th year (60 months into a 75 month warranty), the pro-rata cost for replacement is more than the wholesale cost from my local supplier. That is my ONLY complaint but like I said, I have less than a 1% warranty rate. Not so with Interstate. I have had some NAPA Legend Batteries still test with 80% of the CCA rating after 8 years.