Gonzo

Photo Shop'd

Your preachin' to the choir Joe, been saying the same thing since the late 80's. Every since the very first time I couldn't check a Ford properly without "the scanner" Not that we need more laws, but, tell me how else you are going to be able to keep the big boys from keeping all the toys...??? I don't think it would do any good for every independent shop owner to march through down town Detroit or D.C. with a big wrench in thier hands and stand on the steps of thier doors demanding results. We need several voices in the right places.... I still think this IS a great first step.

I'm seeing this more and more everyday... I totally hate it. Got one now, 07 PT Cruiser with only one code p1745 .. line pressure to high too long... according to what I can find out about the code is that it's not a fault code but merely a way to tell you that the transmission or components have been changed and that it needs recalibrated... which of course is why the tranny shop brought to me... they installed a trans and couldn't get it to shift... Good Ol' Gonz can get it working.... ah, NOT.. dealer scanner with the correct updates is the only way... Oh, I found a guy with a star scanner he bought off of EBay... it read the code just like my scanner would... but apparently it has the most up to date software in it.... but not the right updates... So, we can carry this little problem even further.... how about letting the independent market have access to the equipment ... AT A FAIR PRICE... and further more... all the software that goes with it. And... for Pete Sake... inform us when your changing software, scanners, and procedures... You know I really don't need any help in looking stupid.... but having to explain to a regular customer that I can't service the jobs I used to do.... puts me out of business. .... .... Just like Joe I'M MAD AS HELL! ! Right to Repair... absolutely

Sure no problem, order it from my web site and I can send them out autographed right from my desk... LOL

So I take it you will like to see more of the same.... got lots of them ... LOL Pick up a copy, heck, pick up more than one copy and pass them out to anyone you know in the biz... it's a good book to laugh at ourselves and the business we are in. I had a comment left at a post a few months ago .. but the writer didn't give their name... they said "It's amazing how the author caught the technicians view and how funny people look when they are out of their comfort zone." Obviously... the person doesn't have a clue that I'm not only the author... but the tech... LOL Thanx for reading my story... But I'm sure you can imagine my surprise when I found the ass jolter under that seat... man o man.. what a shocker... LOL

Buy 2 copies Joe, that way when the customer is standing there wondering why you have this silly smirk on your face... just hand them the book... and say "Your in it...LOL" Enjoy, I'll put another story up next month. Gonzo

If you're in the business you more than likely have run across a few "not - so - level - headed" customers ... so have I. Instead of just standing around the water cooler/toolbox and tell these stories back and forth from one tech to another... I wrote them down. My book, "HEY LOOK, I FOUND THE LOOSE NUT" was published last year and is now been introduced to the trade magazines. This is the latest one from AUTOBODY NEWS. I'll be doing a monthly column for them, and each month a different story from the book will be published. (the editor chose this story this month... he liked it...) Each story is different from the last. They cover all aspects of situations that I have encountered over the years. Hysterically funny, and at the same time thought provoking stories. This story isn't so much about a customer but about a situation we had with a customers car. It really happened, it really was a shock to find out what it was. You can purchase a copy of my book from Amazon.com, or Gonzostoolbox.com, or Gossgarge.com. Check with your local book store, Borders can get it but not every store will have it in stock. Great book for those times you only have a few minutes to read, and don't want to sit down for novel. Each story is only a few pages long... long enough for a laugh. Enjoy the story, if you like it... let me know, I'll send more.... If you have a story let me know....

Makes perfect sense Joe, and YES I totally.... TOTALLY... believe there should be standards... and yes... it would very hard to ever think it would be standard across the board... But, hey, we can dream.... right now it's close to a nightmare... LOL... just kidding... But I see your point. and I hope the rest of our readers get involved and put theri comments out there... the more input we can have the more likely we may acutally solve these issues... It's not me, it's not you... its US... that will make the difference in the future of this business. ... I hope I'm making sense...

You know, I feel this discussion is really making a difference, Joe, thanks for letting me post my article on the subject. It's really got people tallking... and I think, that, is, the best thing that could ever happen. Now, my take... which by the way... is my version... of course we all have our opinions... but hey, that's what this is all about. My take on all this.... a Joe, your baiting them... oh come on Joe... you know thats just a polite way to put it.... you're baiting them and hoping they come in for the repair. Your not calling it that, your being as thoughtful to the customer as you can be.... and I think it would be affective... but lets play with this a little... Here's another scenario that needs to be considered. Let's say you have a regular customer that you see every other week with a lot of cars, maybe even a fleet. He is out of town and can't get back to your shop. He goes to a unfamiliar shop... they look at his vehicle and they charge him a diagnostic fee straight up front.... I can just see the guy going balistic... because... he is not use to the charge... and thinks this guy must be ripping him off.. .... well, now what. Oh, he is a loyal customer of yours and he comes back and tells you all about the rip-off artist he was at. But, lets look at it this way..... if (IF) there was a standard policy on diagnostics that was across the board ... would there be that much to bitch about... if everyone in the independent market charged... "something" for the diagnostics and didn't hide it in the cost of the repair ... maybe.. just maybe people would then consider it normal business practice. And not be so quick to call us all crooks for doing our jobs. Keep this going ... I'd like to hear every angle on this subject... everyone has a thought about it... come on... tell us... I'd like to know, and so would the rest .. I'm sure of that.

CarMan.... You got it... that's my approach... I'm not a high traffic shop, never intended to be... but I would like to think professional courtesy is important... and that professionalism goes both ways.... Mr. Powers in one direction, because he keeps the bays full... Mrs. Jones... I would like to think that as a customer you should never expect something for free... I like the way you stated this issue.... congrats!!

So just like the chain stores that will scan your car for free, your willing to do that... ok, that's fine... I'm a small shop and when I spend a couple of grand on a "code reader" and after reading the code... the customer then says... "Oh, that's going to be to expensive to fix.... no thanks, I'll wait..." where's that leave me.... """ FOR SALE ---- ONE SLIGHTLY USED SCANNER --- """" I know I can't agree with what your saying... hey, if it works... good for you... But it sounds to me as if it's the customer that has to be educated that these tests do cost money.... and nothing in this world is free.... I'm sorry, I just don't agree with your theroy... I can't think of a time I went to the doctor... and he said "Oh, it's just the common cold, since was so simple for me to figure it out... I'm not going to charge you as much.,,," Yea, right... that'll happen...

Something for nothing.... ???

Joe, this is another issue we talked about before... advertising..... the more money you can put out for "false" leaders, the more the unsuspecting general public gobble it up as true facts. To bad there isn't anything in place to insure that only true factual advertising can be produced. Good luck with that.... I guess my point is... some how some way the industry needs to police itself and let the general public know that it ain't "US" but some crack pot with cash to burn and who then turns it around and burns them... Pisses me OFF... to hear about these type of bait and switch con artist tactics. Hell, I ain't perfect, but I don't mislead customers with false repairs or lies.... that's just wrong.! ! Mistakes happen and that should taken in to consideration.... but, as all of us know, when a mistake happens in the shop the customer automatically puts you-me-and the whole industry in that same catagorey as this guy from Midas.... sucks... hate it... makes me want to quit every time I think about it. You know, every voice counts.... maybe this website is the start .... maybe we really can make a difference for the future techs, shops, and the industry as a whole.

that's what I meant by upper management.... some goof ball thought he could get away with it... and all he really was .... was a crook. 22 stores... this guy had a few bucks to start with.... why in the world did he think he needed to rip people off...??? My bad, I'm not that rich... so I guess I'll never understand... LOL

UNBELIEVABLE ! ! ! 22 shops ... all playing the same scam??? What's wrong with this picture... this sounds like upper management stuff... I'll bet it was some sort of policy that was made into standard practice and now it's caught up with them. Seems like the idea of "over selling" may have been a great idea at the board meeting, but not such a great idea in the repair shop... There again.... it's that same old saying I keep hashing out ... when common sense leaves.... STUPID... takes it's place.

Glad to be a part of this ever growing techno world... and this web site ... I like what you are doing Joe, and I hope to be a part of it.... getting things out there and getting other shops to put their "two cents" into it ... makes it totally worth while. thanx again Joe for letting me put my articles on the site... I think this one really hit home... Makes people think ... and thats what it's all about. thanx again Gonzo

I just had to update one of my scanners... Mastertech... new software, new scanner, new cables... $4500. later... wonderful... oh yea, I'm going to do this for free.... uhuh... sure... just come on by... I like spending money and getting nothing in return.... NOT! thanx for the input.... glad to see I'm not alone on this. that article is several years old.. still holds true today...

Joe, sure I could change things to where it's more service/repair for mechanical.... but, my "rep" around here is the "go to" guy for any electrical problems. Been that way since day one.... I might be able to change the shop into more productive "mechanical" repair shop, but I'll bet this aging,cranky old wise crackin,take no crap from anybody , "soup nazi of the auto world" mechanic is probably not going to changing much.. (that was suppose to be funny) I'm pretty stuborn... good hearted, and never would I cheat anybody out of one thin dime... but still stuborn as the day is long. I do a lot of custom wiring for street rods, older cars for restorations, and the typical electrcial nightmares of today's cars. I have mainly dealer scanners and not to many off the tool truck type. My biggest disadvantage now is the manufacturers that keep changing the scanners and then I have to go find a way to get one. This raises my overhead cost up and up and up. Then you have to produce with the scanners... that's another challenge, and another story... AND, YES, the "power" of the AutoshopOwner site can be a wonderful addition to the complex questions new and old shop owners have. If nothing more, than create an awarness of the issues we all have.... maybe even get everyone to think of new and better ways of running the independent side of the business. If it can do that... It's done a service far greater than one voice could ever do. Keep it going Joe.... it's improtant, it's the technology of today working for a better tommorrow.

Good point Joe, maintenance, mainetenance, maintenance.... too bad that's usually the first thing people will put on the back burner when the economy drops. My shop, which is primarily an electrical repair shop takes in more diagnostic work than it does maintenance work. I guess that's why I'm so "up" on the intitial diagnostic charge... That's my bread and butter. I figure it out and the customer takes it back to their "regular" mechanic to have the work done. Happens everyday. But I totally agree... the service industry has totally changed from when I started... there needs to be changes... and discussing the "possibilities" in a forum such as this is not only good therapy.... but good sense. Hope it is making everyone think about the service industry and the possibilities of the future of the business.

The site is mainly for my book sales.... The shop, well, it does ok on it's own. I'm going to be writing columns for several magazines very soon and I needed a place to promote sales of my book and any future books. I really wanted a fun site to collect funny, odd, automotive related items. Eventually, I may even take the shop off of the site... but it helps the book image... you know, real mechanic writing real stories from a mechanic's point of view. Most of the stories are extremely funny, thought provoking and informative. The main goal that I was setting out to achieve is to let other shop owners, techs, or for that matter anyone else that works with the general public that they are not the only ones ever to get those wacky not-so level headed customers in their business. Buy a copy of my book and you'll see for yourself.... you'll get a laugh from it. Gonzo

I'm in total agreement Joe, It's not the fact that there should be a "standard' fee... I think there should be... But.. your right ---- the forces against the evolution to the respectablity for the industry and not be considered "just a grease monkey" is probably way past my lifetime to resolve. My entire point was to make a point.... and I think you see the issue at hand.... The guys (like myself) that are barely hanging on is no different than some private practice doctors barely hanging in there... however, they have that sheep skin that allows them to charge for nonsense. You know, it would be a total different thing if it was ... as we talked about on the phone.... IF...a big IF... educated people were the norm in the repair industry and not the so called high school drop out... that ends up running a repair shop. Some day, I don't know when... maybe after I'm long gone... the industy may see the need in handing out "sheep skins" to the techs..., but by then they automobile will probably float down the highway, and defy gravity.... so in a nut shell... it ain't going to change.... but we can dream... LOL

This is an article I wrote several years ago for a trade magazine.... I think it's still true today... Love to hear your comments. Diagnostics fee or not This has been an issue since day one. Should we charge to diagnose the car or should the estimate be free. Let’s define an estimate first. What is an estimate? An estimate is a list of all the parts and labor involved in making a repair. With the possibilities of adding supplements to the original estimate if other work is deemed necessary after the initial work has started. Ok that’s an estimate, or is it…? Let’s try this again. What is an estimate? It’s a guess……. With the chance that I might get it right but more than likely the final bill will be different than what was original “estimated” at. Hmm, the two definitions are different but at the same time mean the same thing… What about the diagnostic side? Ok, how about that… that diagnostic thing. What is a diagnostic? It is the process in which a technician is able to determine the cause or failure of a piece of equipment, vehicle, or appliance. Did ya get that? … One more time … What is a diagnostic? It is the process used to determine the root cause of a given mechanical or electrical problem that has become an issue with a vehicle, appliance or piece of equipment. Sounds the same doesn’t it…. hmm, maybe we are getting to the real issue… MONEY The diagnostics may take some time, may even require a few sophisticated scanners, wiring diagrams, and tools. Time is money as we all know, of course, knowledge, expertise and experience is a commodity that should always be respected no matter what field you are in. A service charge for such “diagnostics” is essential in the continuing financial stability of a shop or for that matter… any service oriented business. Once the diagnostics has been completed an “estimate” can then be given to the customer for their approval. This should also be noted that if a “diagnostics” is preformed and the problem turns out to be “intermittent” or none exciting a fee still applies. The time has already been spent to figure out that there was nothing wrong. That brings up another touchy issue. For some reason the customer feels cheated if you charge for nothing found… now wait a minute, how was it determined that nothing was wrong… ah…the diagnostics lead to that result. Then the problem isn’t the problem anymore, it’s the time spent looking for the problem that is the problem. To ease the customer’s woes you could always give them a time table for future re-evaluations. (30 days is a good round number) Note; It wouldn’t be the first time I have diagnosed a car for a customer only to find out that their complaint is from lack of understanding of their vehicle or dare I say… their just another fruit basket behind the wheel. Now I’m not in favor of a free diagnostics (if you couldn’t tell already) and I’m not too fond of the free estimate. If there is any “man hours” that are part of any job a “man” wants paid. If that “man” is working on a commission basis, I can assure you that he is going to rush through the “estimate” in order to get to the real money end of the job. However a diagnostic is a totally different thing, I don’t think I could have made a living without charging for the time it takes to figure out some of the strange pr oblems I’ve encountered over the years. Some things were easy to diagnose, some took hours. But I believe it’s the standardization of a diagnostic charge that would make things a lot easier for the customers to understand the complexities of today’s problem evaluations. If a tech couldn’t figure out a problem in a reasonable length of time … say an hour… then it’s quite possible the shop is going to be losing money if they kept him on that job. The next best thing would be to move him off that job. Put another tech on who might be able to figure out the problem in a reasonable amount of time. Of course, the shop is already behind the 8 ball, since the first tech didn’t get the job done, but in the long run… it will get done, there will be an estimate for the customer explaining the repairs needed. I don’t know which is more of a problem, the shops out there not willing to charge for estimating… Oops I mean diagnostic time… or the customer who doesn’t feel that it’s a necessary part of the process. Then again, these are not yesterday’s cars. It’s about time there were some standards that everyone in the industry had to go by, be it from the independent side or the dealer side. Regulation or self imposed limits as to how much can be charged across the board for various levels of diagnostics. Not to say diagnosing a bad ball joint is easier than a battery drain, no, not at all. Each field in the industry would have to come up with a balanced set of standards that those involved could agree was a fair price for that type of service. If all the independent shops charge the same fees in a demographic area it would lead to a more even playing field for the customer. Maybe, we should think about using a different term rather than “independent”… we can be independent in ownership, style, quality, etc… but put the customer’s concerns up front. If I wasn’t in the business and didn’t know where to take my car I would really would like to know that I’m getting quality work done at a fair price at any shop I went to. If there was a way to put an end to the “I can get it done cheaper down the street” escapades… my drive home would be a whole lot more pleasant than in the past. . If that didn’t happen it then only comes down to a question of where to have the vehicle repaired at. Everyone has their favorite doctor, dentist, or restaurant. Which is probably based on location, atmosphere, or “ya just like that particular place”. Price is always an issue, and probably always will be. If you’re not getting the job done right at the shop of your choice… choose another one. How many times a day does your phone ring because you have some “price shopper” who is never coming to your shop because your price is higher than the last shop they called… even though they were referred by a friend to call you. Maybe we should focus on better instructional classes, more information, and true manufacturer level scanners available to the independent side of the business. Sometimes too much effort is put on the “Be nice to the customer”, or the preverbal “Customer is always right” routine. The old saying; “If the customer knew what was wrong they would have fixed it themselves” still holds true today. But I’m talking about telling them what’s wrong with the vehicle, not how to fix it. With the advent of the computer age upon us the car has become a rolling updateable, flash reprogramming software jungle of information. The cost of these specialized scanners puts them out of the range of most consumers, and a lot of small shops, which, in some ways, also places the shade tree mechanic on the endangered species list. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard the same line from a customer’s after I have diagnosed a problem. “Well, I could have done that myself, I would have looked there for the problem if I had the time, and I don’t know why you’re charging me for something so simple. You should give a break on the price because it was so simple. “Hey, I’m a regular customer I should be getting a discount.” My usual answer is… “So if you knew what was wrong, why did you bring it to me to figure it out?” And, I’m not sure that other professional people you deal with such as a doctor, dentist, or the grocer…etc… is going to give you a discount just because you shop with them on a regular basis. Common sense, the largest lacking component in all of these situations… In my opinion, once common sense is removed from the conversation “stupid” takes its place. I wonder if I could estimate how many times this has happened… maybe so… but I better think about diagnosing it first…

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