Gonzo

I believe you have a point Joe, about the Dealer making the other guy look bad. I've been doing this for a long time and that situation is so so so typical. Everybody is trying to gain the trust of the consumer and usually at the defacing of another competitor. I'm not sticking up for Jiffy Lube... I'm sticking up for me... the independent market... there is either not enough info or the writer hasn't got all his facts straight. Anytime there is a dispute between two shops... I think an 3rd one should step in as the arbitrator... not some writer or the owner... niether of which are professionals. It ends up back to my usual bitch.... EDUCATE THE CUSTOMER BUT DON'T FORGET TO EDUCATE THE TECH...!

There's a story in my published book that you would get a kick out of. Talk about a big brute story... this guy was the king of big guys. the story is called "Honk for Jesus" if you don't have a copy of my book...yet... ya need too... I'll post that story one of these days if you like. It's another good one. (You know after all these years I pretty much have a story about any subject... LOL)

You should be proud... it's your leadership and husbandry that made it all possible. Sounds like you've got quite a crew, CONGRATULATIONS! ! I've got 3 grandkids so I know what ya mean about the little ones.... they think Papa can do no wrong... makes my day when I see them. As far as the dinner thing... well, that's the price ya pay... but it's still a hoot to do it I'm sure. my little slogan; Kids are kids for a short time, but being an adult is for the rest of your life. Take time to share with the kids... they'll remember it even when they have their own grandkids. Gonzo

You Gorilla You.... LOL now thats funny...

Glad ya liked this one. It was a result of several conversations with vendors, customers, and other shop owners. As usual, every time a few of us get together the "dog stories" start coming out. Which reminded me of this big brute of a fella. Thought it tied the begining of the story to what I wanted to mention in the ending paragraph. Worked well I think. Plenty more stories, plenty more subjects. Thanx for the comments. Gonz

Mr. Gorillalilla With all the talk about the cars with push button starting systems and the runaway acceleration problems it made me think of all the ways everyone has been talking about as far as what is the best method to safely stop the vehicle in these instances. Most everyone will agree that turning off the ignition is NOT the best solution, however, not everyone can agree on whether or not a driver in a panic situation will remember to put the car in neutral instead of reaching for the key or that they shouldn't turn the key back to the "steering" lock position. And for those vehicles with push to start that an operator would remember that you have to hold the "start" button down for several seconds before the car will shut off unless it's in park position. So a lot of the conversations I'm involved in end up back at the steering lock mechanism, which, in a panic situation is the deadly "lose control" factor. Not to forget the fact that during this so called emergency situation you might be driving at close to 100 miles, which could be scary enough without having to worry about shutting the car off. The conversations I get involved in end up with the controversy over whether or not the "general public" will remember and follow the procedures each and every time they are in an emergency situation. This made me think of a situation I had with a customer a few years ago. Let's call him "Mr. Gorillalilla"… nice guy and all, but he was a huge muscular dude and as strong as an ox. His mid 80's Jeep CJ was equipped with a key and lock setup that allowed you to turn the key off without it going all the way to steering lock position. There was a lever that had to be pushed down in order to rotate the key back to the off position and remove the key from the ignition lock. Mr. Gorillalilla had brought his CJ in because he couldn't get the key out of the ignition lock. Examining the problem led to the linkage arms inside the steering column that had been bent and allowed the key and tumbler to rotate around the lock-out mechanism. No parts were really needed; I just had to take it apart and straighten the bent section of the mechanism and reinstall everything. He was relieved that the problem was nothing major and was soon off on his way. The very next day he was back, but this time he wasn't a very happy rock crawler like he was the first time. "It's doing the same thing," he angrily yelled back to me. "Hmm, I wonder how that could be," I said, curious as to how it left in perfect working order but now it's back they way it was. "Let me get it into the shop and check it out." Once I had pulled the steering column back down to where I was the day before I noticed the same parts were bent in the same manner as they were when I first seen them. Now how can that be? Not knowing the whole story I went ahead and put everything back to working order again. "Here ya go, I haven't a clue how in the world that happened sir, sorry about that," I said. Mr. Gorillalilla thanked me for my time and proceeded to leave. Before he left the parking lot he tried it several times to make sure it was working. It wasn't long before he was back through the door screaming at me again. "What do I have to do to get you guys to fix this right," he shouted at me. I went out to the parking lot and looked at his problem again. This time he followed me out to his car. I was totally taken by surprise. Just a few minutes ago I personally saw the switch move just like it was suppose to and I tried it myself several times. This time, I'm not moving the car. I went back into the shop and grabbed my tools. Right there in the parking lot I pulled it down as he watched me perform the operation on his steering column. I tried it several times myself before I let him try it. As soon as this big brute got behind the wheel I knew right there and then where the problem was. He wasn't using the lever to release the key… he somehow, someway was strong enough to rotate the key over the lever mechanism and that was what was causing all the problems. The astonishing thing was he could not see that he was the cause of the problem and insisted that it was a defect in the column. After all the debating I told him that I could remove the "safety" and then he could turn the key off without using the lever anymore. That was fine with him. I tore into the column for a fourth time and removed the latching arm that was attached to the outside release lever. Now I want to complain, but complaining about it doesn't do any good. This big brute had such strong hands he could pull the tumbler back across the stops. The whole thing could have been avoided if the vehicle operator was more aware of how to operate his vehicle correctly. It seems no matter how many times I run across a problem like this I'm the one that ends up putting the labor hours in even though the whole time the problem wasn't my workmanship but this Gorilla's brute strength. My point about this whole affair? This was a perfect example of a safety system that failed because the owner wouldn't follow the procedures, and this wasn't even a panic situation. I'm glad I'm not the engineer, because I don't know how I would solve these issues we are having with these latest designs and technologies (drive by wire). But, I will say this, when it comes to adding or changing the systems in the cars to alleviate problems from the driver's seat… I hope they try making the designs and procedures "Gorilla" proof. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Thats great Jeff, but the original question is what do you do when... you don't catch the service light problem as you did in this case. What is your reaction when the customer comes back with the service light on. This is what I'm interested in... how do you handle the customer then. Gonz

A consumer report that isn't so biased that I felt guilty of being an independent... I'm posting a copy in my lobby. thanx for the post.

That is the 64 dollar question Joe... I could write an article about that very question... as a matter of fact... I think I will. My view on the educating of the customer... YES ... I think it pays off... However, sometimes I think they are only nodding their heads in agreement to avoid their other fears of the automotive industry and that is... being taken advantage of. Or, they are a repeat customer (notice I didn't say loyal) that has built up some trust with me based on their own past experiences at other shops. These folks ... get it... understand it... accept the cause and cures of the procedures and their eventual outcomes. Now on the "unrealistic" side of it; By far these are the people that HAVE those fears of the automtive industry... and probably have been taken advantage of in the past. And, they are not willing to accept any answers from you or me or anybody in the business. They simply do no trust anybody. Or, they are a customer without any repeat business... ANYWHERE... and float from shop to shop with whatever work they need done, because: A. They don't know how to do it, and they can't find a friend that will work for a cold beer in their garage. B. Never want to pay for any type of repair because their own income is already used up in their own daily activities. C. Their neighbor, friend, relative... already told them.. Exactly what needs to be done, and obviously... you, me... we don't have a clue what we are doing... except how to take their money. These folks, will never understand... and those are the ones you don't want to see come in the shop. The odds are against turning these type of people around... That's where the alligator skin works well.... but like I said before... watch out for the alligator.. he'll bite back.

I doubt my attitude is any better than yours..I can remain calm for only so long, then, I will turn into that alligator with a nasty bite if need be. I'll "only" pleasantly talk for so long... then I give into the dark side... If you got me to that point there is two things that are for sure... 1. You ain't coming back 2. I don't want ya back. So is it the check engine light, or, is it check your attitude... LOL

Here's the printed version for Babcox. Leave a comment at the bottom of the article if you'd like. The last part of the article is not mine... it's from Identifix I hate to tell the author of the article that I fix this problem all the time... it's the crank sensor... crank sensor grounds the tach lead and the BCM picks it up as if the engine isn't running so it will not turn the dash on... see this all the time at my shop. Sorry...

I've got a few of my stories that relate to this subject. The usual problem is that the light comes back on but the car drives fine. Which is generally how the car first arrived at the shop for the original check engine light problem. What I do is apply the original diagnostics fee for 30 days and that way they have some value built in. The average complaint is that the light is on ... and you didn't do a thing. Since they never see the actual workings of the scanner or the diagnostic testing information they will always assume... you didn't do a thing. (I like your Nixon comment right about now Joe) It is never a pleasant issue, it hardly ever goes without some sort of responce from the customer. But I call it ... "growing aligator skin" Let them chew... I'll fix the problem... I can take it. Been there, done it before. Once the diagnostics is done and you explain to them (educate the customer) how the PCM reads the faults in order of importance and that some codes may only happen after certian other systems change their values, they seem to get it then. Or I try the old "Ya gotta put air in the tire to find the leak... then let the air out... fix the leak... and hopefully their ain't another leak to worry about... but if there is we will have to go thru the process all over again..." This works well for those "good-ol-boys" that stagger into the shop. As long as the customer is understanding and can be educated into the inner workings of their automobile... I usually don't have a problem. The only time I do, is when they DON"T come back and go to the "other" shop who makes it their business to run you down... and then you get that call from the customer... you know the one... (@%&^!$@^@#&* why you &*^%$*) etc... etc... I just put that aligator skin on and wait for a chance to explain. But don't forget... aligators have a pretty mean bite too....

That's almost funny Joe, a year ago or so I had the same situation... It was because the joints were to stiff... they wouldn't turn smoothly... made the car vibrate like crazy. Had to switch manufacturers...

Dewayne, a lot of times it's because we all are guilty of thinking of ourselves as individuals, or better put independents. The word Independent should... in my book... only refer to the style or type of business that is outside of the dealership programs. Not the individuality of the independent business. Those individuals out there that give the profession a bad name is what I believe we are trying to erase with ASO... and for that matter a lot of the other organizations out there. Once, if ever, we as a collective of indepedents make it known how the true business ethics applies to the majority and not the minority of repair shops out there... well, then... we can possible see an end to the so called... "label" Individuals are mechanics... Independents are OUR group... This is just a small part of the story I'm working on now. Later Gonzo

Working on it Joe.... I'm working on it. Might even send it out for publication...

I hate to hear stories like that... those are the things an inspection could help look into before they are an accident. Why did Oklahoma drop it's state inspections... The actual inspection cost 5 dollars... the state would collect one dollar from each inspection. By the time they added up the cost of having the stickers printed, people to manage everything and the never ending paper work to log all these inspections it was determined that the actual income was a negative. Sooo... thru more bureaucratic manipulation the one dollar was instead ... added to your yearly tag costs. Which now is a true dollar without any outside expenses. Now that's not how they put it to the "people" the offical answer was that the inspections were not keeping up with the maintenance of the vehicles and many of the inspection stations were no abiding by the set rules. Sooo... now we don't have a thing... and less traffic for wear and tear items on a car. The state basically told everyone to follow their owners manual for maintenance schedules.... (yea, like that's going to happen) The worst that can happen now is that you get a ticket for a broken tail light or something and you try to get it fixed as cheaply as possible. Government BS... what else is new.

Latest news is that New Jersey is dropping state inspection as of July. Here in Oklahoma they dropped them years ago. I was a inspection station and I would have to admit it was good money. Now that we don't have inspections I see more and more cars that should be pulled off the road because of poor maintenance practices. What your thoughts on state inspections. Gonzo

From one old timer... to another... Welcome... lot's of great guys here... You'll enjoy the posts... Gonzo

Great post, it really puts things into perspective. The one thing you didn't mention is the "why" change fluids more often on todays wonders of technology. Machine tolerances... with the advent of the so called "0" weight oils to allow a smooth oil flow in today's engines the tolerance they have on oil sludge is a higher concern. But, it may take a 60 minutes documentary to show the good and the bad. By far the most important thing... educating the customer... and that oil change guy.... (me included) Nothing remains the same, and change is what keeps us on our toes. Next thing you know we'll have our own ultrasound machine to examine the inside of an engine... LOL

Now we're talkin business... send me a copy. This is a great idea... and the fact that you tied the "needy families" into the mix... great effort!!! You've proved to me again Joe,,, ya got it goin' on... Not bad for a fossil... (as my son would say...LOL)

Questions: Did you charge a fee to be at the class? Was it entirely just women... or did some men come along? Would this be something that might be incorporated into a drivers education class? Could you see this as a monthly class, something that they could get more info each time they attend? Did you have a lesson plan, and if so, could you share your class ideas? I like the concept... great idea... Gonzo

I guess it didn't "write" down like I meant it to be. Not that I'm against PS flushes... no I'm not... I meant it as a lost leader. These guys that do the farm out type work is nothing new to me. Several years ago I had this guy drive by my shop... hit his brakes hard, come running into my shop and tells me "that's my truck, what are you doing with it" That's when I found out it was farmed out to me from another shop... and they didn't tell the customer... and he found out they were only raising the price to him... and it would have been cheaper to have brought it straight to my shop instead. Sorry for the confusion... Gonzo.... sometimes... I'm just dizzy... (then there was yesterday... spent the day at the dentist...yuk, root canal... thank god for meds...LOL)

Unblievable... the first thing that strikes me is that the unsupecting customer would even think they needed such things as "pwr steering flush" and the second is that the business would try it. All of this sounds... again (broken record) of a bait and switch. Have you ever noticed the TV ads for ... lets say... eye glasses...?? "Buy one get one free... or the $29.95 special" When you get there you find out it's one shelf of eye wear.. but only half of that shelf, and only the ones that are on the left side of that half shelf...... "But, since you're here... let me show you the latest styles... oh, they are only $399.00" Call me old fashion, call me frugal... but one thing that pisses me off more than anything else... is the old "reduced price on an item to get you in the door deal..." Always thought that was a crude way of getting them in the door... but... IT DOES WORK... that to me is the unbelievable part... So, I guess, if ya wanna sell power steering flushes, and some "dumb A hole" wants to pay for it... well, let the world keep turning... no wonder I'm so dizzy... BTW... I'll avoid shopping where they offer such crude methods of advertising.... just to let you know.

Joe, buddy ya said it right. I will have to put myself into the catagorey of "self made mechanic/owner" as I stated in my book.. "If only I knew then what I know now...." As you said, me too, I was the kid that fixed everybody's car, I was good at it ... at a very young age... and I'd would agree that it was being a mechanic first and businessman second. I am very... very proud to be a part of the independent work force in this industry and not ashamed to say "I'm an independent"... there's no golden wrench under my pillow... I'm a blue collar family guy with a lot of time learning to run a business... Nobody handed my a pot full of money to start... I did it the hard way... and I'm still here. Joe, I guess that's why we see eye on a lot of issues... you and me... we came from the same streets. Glad to be a part of ASO... glad to keep posting... I think it's great what you've done with ASO... more shops should know about it.

“You’re Just One of Those Slick Talkin’ Mechanics” Written by Gonzo Weaver As printed in Autobodynews - 2010 from my book "Hey Look, I Found the Loose Nut" A referral came in from and old customer. It was an early 90’s Ford pickup that could have passed for a clown car. This thing had every color of the rainbow on it. Windshield was cracked, and the driver side window was hanging sideways. Even the bed of the truck was loaded down with all kind of debris from roofing shingles to old busted up lawn furniture. Not to mention the interior could use some house cleaning. These are the type of vehicles I hate to get stuck behind when I’m riding my motorcycle. You just never know when something is going to fly out of the bed of the truck and smack into you. The only reason I even took this pile of junk into the shop was because it was a referral from a regular customer. Normally, if you pull up to the shop in this bad of shape you better have one hell of a heart bleeding story, or I’ll tell you to get it on down the road. Anyway, this beat up old Ford had so many problems. I had to do my best to sort though what I could. It was hard to start, and when it did start it had a terrible miss. If you tried to drive it even few feet it would buck and backfire, and eventually start to move, but not without a great effort on the motor’s part. I called our junk collector and told him what I had found right off the bat, and that it needed taken care before we went any further. The old distributor had such a wobble in the shaft that half the time it couldn’t find the contact points. I thought this was why it was so hard to start, and for that matter the big backfire. Of course a lot of other things could cause the same problem. But this was so obvious any first year tech could have spotted the problem. “So that’s all there is wrong with it?” he asked. “I seriously doubt that. I haven’t checked it for codes. I haven’t looked at the transmission or fuel pressure, but this distributor has got to go,” I said. Now it’s a money thing. He told me to go ahead with it, and keep him informed of the results. After installing the distributor it started right up, even sounded pretty good. Before pulling it out onto the road, I thought I better check those codes. There were 2 codes; One for a TPS, and another for the transmission. I called him and told him what I found. Now it’s back to money thing again. “OK, go ahead with the TPS. I don’t think there is anything wrong with the transmission,” he told me. This was like putting the curse of Murphy on the truck. Something has to go wrong now. I put the TPS in, and cleared the codes. The engine started great, ran terrific, and sounded surprisingly solid. All the codes cleared, and no more really obvious problems (I could have spent days straightening things under the hood). It was time to hit the road. Oh, oh. The truck’s transmission was trash. It had all the gears, well, sort of. It would lumber along, drop in and out of gear, and find a new neutral position when it had a chance. For the most part the transmission was in about as good of shape as the rest of the truck. Just plain overworked. You might as well put a fork in this one, because it’s done. Time to make the call. It seems every time you get this far into one of these never ending repairs it will reach a point where you’re not solving one problem at a time, but creating an even bigger one, the financial one. Almost every time this type of customer will go along with what needs done until he thinks you don’t know what you’re doing, and are just out to take their money. Not so! The whole thing comes down to maintenance. It’s not like everything broke at once. They let it go, then expect a one-fix repair with a discount! Like I said, the outcome is a little different each time, but the common factor is usually the same. I’m not getting paid for all the work I have completed….only some sort of agreed upon amount of the repair. This guy took it the extreme. When I called him and told him about the transmission he didn’t have the money. I expected this. Oh, he didn’t have the money for the repairs we had already done. What he was going to try to do was talk me into giving the truck back to him, and he would pay so much each week, because he needed that truck to get back and forth to work. If he didn’t have a way to get to work he couldn’t pay me. I told him that he should have thought of that before he agreed to the work that was done, because the car doesn’t leave until the bill is paid. That’s when he started in on me. “You’re just one of those slick-ass talking mechanics,” he shouted through the phone. “Well that might be the case, and I have called worse, but we did have an agreed upon bill.” I said. “Oh come on man, I know it didn’t need any of that work you did. All it needed was a transmission. So I’m not going to pay for any of it, and I’m picking up my truck today,” he screamed into the phone. Now there are two things to keep in mind on this story. One, he originally agreed to all the repairs as they were getting done. And two, he didn’t think there was anything wrong with the transmission. Or did I miss something in the conversation? The screaming on the phone went on for what seemed like hours. There was no getting through to him about the agreed upon work, or the conversations we had about the additional work to the truck. Or the fact that I had originally told him about the amount of items I found wrong with the truck. I could tell I might as well be talking to the wall. “OK fella, I can see we’re not going to get anywhere. You know me being a slick-ass talking mechanic and all; tell me how much you have and be honest now. If I agree to accept the amount I’ll put your truck out front, and you bring in what cash you have and I’ll give you the keys. Here I am trying to help you out, and now all you want to do is change things after the fact. I didn’t want to do this job in the first place because of the horrible condition it was in, but another customer said you were an upstanding guy. So I did the work. Take your truck home and do whatever you want with it, because I don’t need to make a living off someone who doesn’t trust me. Even if the guy who referred you does. He agreed to this strange arrangement, but he was still mouthing off when he got to the shop. He walked out to his truck and started right up. He came back in the office still mad as hell, and wanted me to show him which parts I changed, so he wouldn’t change the same ones again. I did, and then he wanted a receipt for the parts. You can figure out the rest, he left the same way he came in. Unfortunately for him, there was no way to show his manhood with a tire squealing peel out in the parking lot. The transmission doesn’t work that well! Oh by the way, I do feel sorry for the guy, and wish I could have done more for him since he was a referral from a good friend and customer. The money is very important, but I do need to have some assurance that I’m appreciated for what I do. The old customer and I talked about it later. He said he thought the guy was a kind and conscientious guy. He’d never heard a cuss word out of him, since he was the janitor at his local church and all. Go figure.