skm

I was doing a state inspection on a ford F150 this morning and I came across this. For Inspection we look for damage lines, copper lines, lines that are rusted and pitted, and compression fittings. In my 25 years inspecting I have failed tons of brake lines but never come a cross a repair like this. WOW !! Needless to say I wrote DO NOT DRIVE TRUCK UNSAFE ! on his inspection report and his receipt . Anyone seen this one before??

well we give wiper install for free.. only takes a minute. I think if it takes 20 minutes $14.00 is fair , but if it really takes 20 minutes there lies your problem you need to hire better techs... (just having fun don't take it seriously)

I have one now that fits this post also the one about turning work down. I have a 2003 astro van that the customer has replaced the timing chain, cam sensor, crank sensor, tps, maf, and o2 sensors. The van runs rough but if he unplugs the tps it smooths out. I explained to him he is sending it into a limp mode so to speak. I took a quick look at it. First off the battery is very weak which is contributing to a lot of the rough start up once it runs a few seconds and gets proper voltage to things it starts to smooth out, but still a little wonky . Everything of what I can see of the data stream looks good . Has trouble code for crankshaft sync, so I tried to sync it through the scanner twice with no luck. I figure the guy has the timing chain off a tooth. The real problem is to sync this crankshaft sensor you need to do a WOT until it hits the rev limiter if it does not hit it there is a problem, well the biggest problem is the engine has 277,000 miles on it. Now for one I am not going to rev this thing any more to try to sync it I don't want to buy an engine, and I'm not going to tare it down to look at the timing chain, since he could not get the cover off (didn't know what he was doing) so he broke it and gooped it back together, it would take me a few hours just to get all the silicon off of it. I have a problem reving any engine no mater how many miles are on it, every time that piston goes from tdc to btc it has to come to a full stop and reverse direction, with out a load on the engine it is like tying a rock to a string and throwing it up in the air then as it reaches the end of the string yanking it back down.. Now at some point that rock is going to break the string just as the piston is going to brake the connecting rod. i can't stand to hear "techs" reveing engines the just tells me they don't really know what they are doing. Any way I called the customer explained to them I am not going any farther on the vehicle since I don't want to blow it up so it is better off going to the dealer let them blow it up I want to save my pennies.

phynny, My best advise is to just ignore his posts, I understand exactly what you are talking about and if you google him you will see most of his posts are on this site. He may or may not have good advice, I for one do not know, but I do know his type. He means well but more so want to make money . His type of advice is geared towards big shops like, dealers, sears, goodyear, etc.. the places were customers are not number one concern number one concern is money. Those type of businesses don't have to worry about the customer since they are so big. I have been to a couple of meetings with people like him , they want to nickle and dime the customer and push push push sales on everything. Look at factory recommendations if is says do a trans fluid change , all filters , change oil etc. he pushes for that to be done even if not needed, could of been done a week ago but his type of sales is to do it anyway ... If he was in the trenches and actually dealt with the general public and not just corporation owners he would really see what it is about , but that being said it is his job that is what he does for a living. So we have a choice of listening or not freedom of choice, but he also wins with negative comments since it brings attention to him. The best thing is if you decide he is not for you just ignore his posts.. have a good one and good luck with all your ventures phynny don't let that guy get to you .

I agree with this totally ! Where I am there is nothing like this in place. This is something that needs to be made nation wide.. Like I have stated before, to be a doctor, plumber, hvac, electrician, lawyer, massage therapist, taxi driver, bus driver, etc on and on you must have a license and past tests. to be a mechanic/tech you must be able to say " I am a mechanic " at your interview, if you are even given one .. I think it needs to be a nation wide program licenses or ASE or equivalent tests must be passed !

Haha I was actually solicited by these clowns.. Looking for ASE master techs.. now who on earth as a master tech would go work in the streets? Laying on the ground working on your knees and crap like that. Look how big our tool boxes are and how many times you go back and forth between the car and your box to do a job. How many times have we run into problems where we need to drill bolts, heat things up etc? How are you going to do that on the street? Good luck with that LOL!

I agree with turning work down , I don't do engines or transmissions any more. Just like the rusted manifolds on the f150 and expeditions I always recommend sending them to Midas or another muffler shop. Transmission work I send out to the trans shop , I tell the customer I can find out what is wrong whether a hard failure or an electrical issue but I don't like to get involved not to mention the trans shop would be able to do any updates etc needed if a rebuild is needed. I have been at it long enough to know the things to turn away like the vvt actuators (camshaft gear) on volvos, etc. some of them are okay like the 2.4 hondas. For a smaller shop to be profitable, I think picking and choosing is needed. Let the big jobs go to the big shops (dealers) etc. I think a lot of people think they need to do what ever come through the door, some have the Idea that you can't let some one go with out getting something from them. I believe be honest up front and let people know why they should take it else where and let them know that you would gladly handle any other problems they have now or in the future and you will see that customer again. That is also why I strongly believe in using a good labor guide program, I can't stand the mechanic/tech that gives a customer a price off the top of their head or makes prices up that is a bunch of crap. If you use a good labor guide you can weed out the problem jobs that are not a visible problem, look the labor up and it is very high and says r & I engine well that one needs to go.. I learned this the hard way I had a nissan quest that needed the heater pipe assemble (with rear heat) replaced one of the guys in the shop looked at it and told the guy about two hours labor, when I looked the job up you have to r and i the engine and that is a fact there is no way to get those aluminum pipes in there any other way. A good labor guide and good experience, you can figure out the jobs that are a pain in the ass and let someone else have the headache . I always say "life is too short" !

LOL great story Gonzo , yes I am sure the old saying " drive it like you stole it " applies to how most rental cars are driven . Right at the bottom of the mountain would be a great place for a brake shop.

There are a few sites out there already as others have stated. One of the biggest problems I see is "consumers trying to learn more about a repair" that something that I don't think is actually possible since a lot of "mechanics" now a days don't understand a car. It is way to complicated, Everything needs to be converted in to lame mans terms, not a very easy thing to do. How about just setting up a website that explains why car repair is expensive, and why good Technicians/mechanics are underpaid and give leads to well know shops/techs ? or no leads at all just educate the consumer on the truth of costs of auto repair. how much technicians have to learn and pay for tools just to fix their cars. How being a tech. is really combining many jobs into one, a plumber, hvac person, computer person, fabricator, etc etc... and the continuing costs of tools and education and so on. That being said it is like explaining quantum physics to a 5 year old . best of luck to you

Davine4real,, I think you miss understood what I wrote.. I give my business card out with the service writers card.. I give them his card since that will be their point of contact. I then give my card which has my certifications/qualifications and my name along with the business name and phone number.. my cell phone number is NOT anywhere on my business card. My business card is so the customer can request me by name, the ones that don't already know me.. And " we've all been there done that " is a bunch of crap cause I have never ever in my 25 years of working there given my business card with my cell phone number on it so .... let's be for real.

Of course he is side stepping the business, the guy is gone 6-7 hours out of the day .. The owner knows this he sees the guy behind the local mc donalds working on cars when he should be at work. The owner has no idea how to run a buisness. I have brought the cards to him many times and told him it is a huge conflict of interest. See the problem with the last few owners that have owned the shop is that they don't understand that you treat people right they will come back over and over and you will make money for several years vs. getting as much as you can the first time you see them. They seem to think they need to have a mechanic in all bays at all times or at least in this case employ a mechanic for each bay. If you have one cow that fills 5 jugs of milk a day you can sell , you buy 10 jugs you are still are only going to get the 5 jugs filled, but if people keep coming back for the milk you will in time be able to buy another cow, which will then fill the other jugs. They seem to think the more mechanics in there the more money they are going to make. not true you may even loose work due to the caliber of people you are hiring not to mention with the guys they have now he is losing money hand over fist with there selling tactics and ripping people off. Anyway that is just one more reason I am looking to open my own shop. shop owners need to have the ability and mental power to fire people and not feel sorry for them , it is your business, and just like a dog sled team only going to be as fast as is slowest dog, or like a chain only as strong as it's weakest link. Fill your shop with good honest guys and you can see that checkered flag , fill it with a bunch of hacks you will see then negative bank account and be able to honestly say " I once owned a repair business "

As I read the posts on this page I see things from a different prospective as most, I am a Master Tech, L1 , Master Emissions license , state inspection license. As some may know from reading my posts. I have been at the same shop for 25 years and am so fed up with the business practice and pay that I am looking to open my own shop, but want to find a shop that need to be taken over or the owner is retiring . Problem being it is very hard to find one that people aren't asking crazy money for, so the search continues. My problem is nobody wants to pay what techs are really worth, How can I be paid the same commission as a 21 year old with no schooling or training what so ever?? anyway I think the good tech problem is only going to grow and grow until there is some sort of licensing implemented to weed out all the street mechanics and rip offs. Every other career needs to be licensed (plumbers, electricians , doctors, pilots, cdl truck drivers and so on...) I for one am very honest and treat peoples cars as if they were my own, I won't over sell, I won't lie, in fact I get a lot of state inspections referred to me (I hate doing them not enough money very boring ) since I am honest.. State inspections are not for the purpose of making money they are for the safety of the vehicles on the road, if people really understand the inspection process they will see that every thing is the bare minimal needed to be considered safe.. I get customers that come to me after someone (possible another guy at the shop) have worked on their cars and they still have the same issue , I always point out my certificates that are hung not really in view over my tool box, and let them know I have many years of experience and am a Master certified tech. I then tell them you get what you pay for. None of the other guys here are certified or would I let work on my car , now many of you are now saying that I am probably killing the business or as an owner are pulling their hair out saying you can never talk bad about the business , well I do and will until things change. i agree with the need for better pay , and getting the public to realize why auto repair is expensive, it's not like the 50's thru the late 80's cars are very advanced now and need some one who know what they are doing to fix them. Also that there needs to some sort of licensing so that the public can have some sort of confidence in taking there cars to be repaired. too much stigma out there of how we are rip offs. I say if your are not ase certified then another License must be obtained to be able to work as a Technician/Mechanic

Should techs be allowed to hand out business cards? Where I work we do/can hand them out. I have my own which have the business name on them, all my certifications and licenses along with the business phone number not mine personal number. When I hand out my card I always give the customer my Service writers card first and tell them that is who they will be contacting and then I give them my card. I have come across the other "techs" cards (none of which are certified or have any licenses) one has the station name, his name followed by certified technician . On his card he has the ASE certified logo and then just his personal cell phone number. He is not certified nor does he have the stations number on it. The other guys card has the station name, his name followed by Technician specialized in all automotive repair. Followed by his cell number, the station number no where to be found on the card. This guy is very young has no training or schooling in fact is the first guys helper so to speak, he has a uniform but is paid by the other "tech" as his helper. Which in my mind brings up a whole other set of problems possibly legal, but I won't get into that. Any way my thoughts are that these cards they are handing out are a conflict of interest and should not be allowed by any means and if continued the employee should be cut loose. What are you thoughts on business cards, mine are as such .. The way I have my card and hand the customer the service writers card first, I think is acceptable, or have the owner make the business cards for the "techs" with the information that he feels should be on the cards. I don't see a problem handing out the cards as long as the business's name and number is prominent on the card and the techs number is not on the card at all, and his or her qualifications can be and should be on the card. I also think that the service writers card needs to be handed out by the tech along with his or her card. What are you practices or thoughts on the matter of business cards?

I am glad you posted this, I am in the process of looking for a shop, and one of my biggest issues is that I feel all my employees would hate me and because I just feel as if I would have a problem getting them to do thing the way I do them. Reading your post actually makes a lot of sense . As long as they are well rounded let them show you their strengths and then build on that. I think still the biggest problem is finding the "well rounded" sound techs.

I agree, when I was in school we were offered, home economics, photography, shop class (wood working) etc. , and auto shop. I didn't take advantage of any of them. I honestly believe that a lot of these courses were dropped due to the "danger" factor. Everyone is so scared of being sued these days it seems to be the easiest way to make money LOL. I mean you can't even spank your child in public anymore, now it is time out, not that I condone spanking your kids, but I do believe the severity of the crime needs a different punishment, timeout does not get the point across in my opinion. That being said I think there are a lot of reason that there is a shortage of up coming techs/mechanics, and other trades. I think over the years everything has really trended to the education aspect of things you have to do really well in school go to a great school and get a good degree. I think all the traditional jobs that this country were built on are going to the waste side for many reasons, one being pay another being laziness . I started working when I was 12 years old at the local pool's snack bar then delivering papers etc. I always had a job I even worked after school (had to always get a work permit from the counselors office get it filled out and submitted to get a job). I think the work ethic is not really instilled in today's young. A lot of people I talk to say they don't want there kids to work they should just dedicate them selves to school. I agree in part, but they are missing a huge value that needs to be instilled in them and that being that you don't get anything free it takes a lot of hard work and dedication. I also think that with all the street mechanics and no real regulations on who can work on cars has really given the business a bad name , I mean lets be for real in our industry the general population sees mechanics as rip offs, and I can't disagree with a lot of that because I have and still do work with some terrible rip offs. Who would want to get into a career where you are labeled as a rip off? The younger generation wants to graduate from college and start making good money . In our field we graduate from a trade school or college course and we are given the back ground knowledge to get our foot in the door and start a career in the field, but there is still a ton we need to learn before we are "good techs" . Also our first several years most of our money goes towards buying tools. (which never ends just slows dramatically) . Where I work now there is a huge apartment complex across the street, they were hiring all the local kids during the summer to help move rubble as they were re-doing the underground parking. A few of the kids who frequent the shop to talk with the young kid that works there were working over there for about 3-4 days, I asked one of them why they quit, they said it was too hard, too much work, and they had guys (foremen) telling them what to do and how to do it, "they acted like we were their slaves" I explained to them that those guys had worked there way up and done the crap work they are now doing, had paid their dues now have a better part of the job, but you need to start somewhere. Of course they take it as bull shit, and they needed more pay for what they are doing. That being the general census . youngsters now a days just want to play sports or become musical artists etc. They see all the money and fame these people get and that is all they want to do, they don't realize that only a very few people will make it . Hard work and dedication is being replaced by desks, computers, social media, and the internet. Just google if you one should pursue a career in the automotive industry and you will find plenty of people advising against it. The internet as wonderful as it is , has probably made the next generation very lazy. I mean what do kids do now a days?? They play video games, chat on line with their friends, facebook, instagram, basically sitting on their butts, I mean they even "cyber bully " one another. How many kids do you know now a days that are not carrying a cell phone? I think overall the problem is we have built a society that is more a less built on laziness. So any hard work careers are pretty much out the window.

How about the great design of the Chevrolet Chevette. Removing the a/c compressor to change the distributor cap, rotor , and wires. Brilliance at its best.

Yes all kinds of excuses . Being certified since 1991 I know these tests are a very good indicator. I like the ones that say "anyone can pass them all you have to do is read about it and you can pass them, so a bookworm can pass them doesn't say anything about the ability to do the job" that is the biggest bunch of crap I have ever heard. Anyone who has taken them knows for a fact that is not by any means true!

yes The shop is only as strong as the weakest link.. Just like a dog sled team It can only go as fast as the slowest dog.

The shop where I work use to have a radio, now we don't . I my self do not like the radio while working I find it annoying when trying to listen for things vacuum leaks, noises under the dash etc.. It is also distracting in my opinion you should concentrate on what you are doing not singing along to a song, which brings up a whole new set of problems having to listen to a tone deaf person singing at the top of their lungs over the radio. My personal opinion radio out concentration and work in! I think it may be a distraction for many. Would you want to go into surgery had have to doctor blasting the radio as he performs surgery on you ? not me . I think there are enough dangers around a shop we don't need any more distractions

I agree, you don't think that ASE tests are enough? You find the guys that say those tests are junk and you don't need them. I found the reason they say that is because they can not pass the tests. If you know what you are doing and are competent, then you should have no problem passing the tests. I also agree you should be licensed to work on cars, every other job even a plumber needs a license why not mechanics? If they did, I am sure it would really weed out the street mechanic and also show the real worth of an honest true trained mechanic.

pretty much my thoughts exactly.

I started off doing all my own estimates, then we got a service writer who has been there for the last 20 years now. I have noticed that he tends to be a liaison for the customer. He tends not to charge enough for diagnostics and sometimes repairs , such as not adding in the little .2 or .3 where p/s or something may interfere. I noticed that with a/c jobs never seems to put in a diagnostics, same with TPMS sensor diagnostic, replacement, and programming . He was charging the same amount as replacing a old rubber valve stem. When he goes on vacation I do my own sales, I found that most customers don't even question things especially if you include the diagnostics in with the labor they don't know which is diagnostics and which is labor and don't seem to care. I had a customer that I replaced his Tires sensor sold by the service writer, He came back in with another sensor bad about 5 months later our service writer was on vacation so I worked up an estimate and when I called him he asked me why it was 45.00 more than the last one he had installed. I went back in the history and looked and sure enough. So I explained that a mistake was made and the diagnostics and programming was not charged last time. Of course he was not happy. I explained why we need to charge these things and if he was not happy he was welcome to call around and see what others would charge him. He called me back in about 45 minutes and said go ahead and change it we were still far less than the dealer wanted to replace it and less than the surrounding shops. He even offered to pay the difference of the last time the other sensor was replaced (one of my good customers of 24 years) , or course I told him no.Basically what I have found is don't sell your self short on a job, most people will do it don't be scared of numbers you never know what people have to spend and most are willing to pay to know that their car is fixed and fixed correctly. Just be fair and honest !

I hated those old manuals, also had the labor guide in one of those huge books. Agreed we need information. I use shop key pro for wiring diagrams, tsb's, and specs and maybe code setting protocol having information is not what my thread was suppose to be about, you can have all the info in the world and still not be able to fix a sandwich let alone a car. The knowledge needs to be there. have a great day guys

Thanks, my way of thinking wasn't about running a business it was simply about well trained techs, as I am sure you know from running a business that there are a lot of hacks and parts changers out there. And good techs being hard to find. That is all. I am sure I will do fine if and when I decide to open a shop. Thanks for your input have a good one as well !! p.s I googled your shop saw a picture of it very very nice I defiantly give your props !

Wow sorry if I hit a nerve.. and its not about technology, and I don't live in the dark ages I just believe in knowing what you are working on sir. I did not personally attack you, so please don't attack me, maybe the truth hurts? Maybe if your computers go down you may have a problem? I don't know and am sorry you feel you need to pay lots of money for subscriptions to things so you can fix your cars when your techs should have that knowledge in their heads. My point to of the whole thread " shortage of good techs". relax, take a deep breath, I'm not going to effect your life or your business see ya