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There are repairs that if one is experienced they know that the labor time is incorrect and should be compensated for. When you are a non-tech like myself that is not the case. I can only try to learn and remember which repairs take longer and also consult with my techs when in doubt and this helps. Some things can only be known by experience. All sorts of things such as the complexity of the vehicle, age, corrosion, etc. can change things. Yesterday was a bad day because we got our lunch ate on the labor times on two different repairs. All in all I would say we shorted ourselves about 6 hours of labor time. That is over $400. Ouch! I think as much as possible on unfamiliar repairs in the future I will check both guides where possible. For example a rear axle seal/bearing on a 2000 Suzuki Grand Vitara calls for 1.3 hours in Alldata and 2.7 hours in Motor. You are right that an hour of brain surgery is worth more than an hour of raking leaves. Most shops don't like doing heater cores or evaporators so when we do one would try makes sure we charge enough labor.

We currently use Alldata for our labor guide. However, we also have access to Identifx which has Motor labor information. Lately we have discovered some large discrepencies between the labor times. For example the labor to do a head gasket on a 2001 Chrysler Sebring 3.0 is 6.9 in Alldata and 9.9 in Identifix (or something close to that). The later seems to be closest to the actual. I could site other similar examples. Does anyone know which is most accurate? Advice?

This post raises two good questions. What or how is everyone charging as far as shop fees are concerned? What does shop rent run?

The more people you have the harder it becomes. We only have seven people. If I had 14 I couldn't do some of the things we do now.

It is stated in our employee handbook that vacations have to be scheduled at managements discretion or something like that. We tell everyone up front that vacation time cannot be taken at peak times. However, once I did allow one employee to take vacation at that time of year. To compensate we try to schedule holidays where at least one of our techs gets four days off if a holiday falls on Monday, Tuesday, Friday, or Saturday. Once a month one of our techs has a scheduled three day weekend. We do this by rotating days off. Once a month a tech will have Saturday off this week and Monday off next week which gives them a long weekend. If a holiday falls on Monday, Tuesday, Friday, or Saturday the lucky tech has a four day weekend which is very popular.

American Families Save $26 Billion Annually at Independent Repair Shops, Data Shows November 24, 2009 Right to Repair proponents say research demonstrates need for legislation. http://www.autocarepronews.com/Article/686...data_shows.aspx

I would not allow it, although I will work with an individual for an extra day or two off if I can accomodate it.

No! What I am saying is that I would like to be able to import the OEM part numbers and labor time into my estimates from what ever guide I am using be it Mitchell or Alldata. Based upon what I have seen so far I am leaning towards Alldata's system. Has anyone used both Mitchell and Alldata? Any other suggestions.

I voted!

How to changing a VW belt in 5 seconds:

FOOTBALL AND THE BLONDE... Out of all the blonde jokes, this one has to be the best!

Greeting & Listening to Women http://workshop.search-autoparts.com/_Gree...0057/31710.html Has anyone looked in to joining www.AskPatty.com?

A blonde said, 'I was worried that my Mechanic might try to rip me off but I was relieved when he told me all I needed was turn signal fluid.

If one is dealing with one or two shops and only a few techs then I think formal reviews probably aren't worth it. Individual pep talks would be more effective. You see the techs every day and have a very good feel for their performance. Truthfully I am a very poor manager of people. I am a quick learn, good with finances, a good salesman, have experience doing a lot of stuff, widely read (I've read Blanchard), and a great people person but not a very good as a manager of people. My style is more to get impatient, push someone out of the way and do it myself. That isn't good and fortunately I have a good service manager who I allow to manage in the shop techs. Mostly I run the front.

I agree with you. Our customers can view 6 of our 7 bays. However, if I built a new shop I may or may not make the work area viewable from the waiting area. No technician I ahve ever had liked to to be watched while they work. Joe all there is to it is the picture and that little footnote. However, when I saw it I thought about what the guy was known for (customers viewing the bays and menu board pricing). My reaction was that I couldn't seem much benefit to either thing. We had menu board pricing with some pricing posted a few years ago. It would say for example mufflers starting at $29.95. Invariable you got customers who didn't understand the words starting at. They would want a $29.95 muffler on a BMW and then you had to go through the wasted effort of explaining why that wasn't possible and that there was no $29.95. As cars become more complex and unique than there are more and more variables that influence pricing and menu pricing is almost a waste of time. For example flushing a transmission may be dependent upon capacity as well as type of fluid required (Mercron 6, ATF +4, Mercron-Dexron, etc.). When I saw this I just thought it was a bad idea. I doubt that this guy does the volume or complexity of work that your shop does Joe.

Here is an article on Reviewing Techs' Work. Does anyone do any formal reviews? http://aftermarketbusiness.search-autopart...e/detail/633565

According to Motor Age magazine the service prices are clearly listed at Elizabeth Autocare, and customers can see directly into the bays while work is being done. http://motorage.search-autoparts.com/motor...ategoryId=48396 What is your opinion of posting menu board pricing and the customer being able to see into the bays?

Joe, that is more of a gut decision than anything. Maybe you made a good decision that will pay off. Maybe you got taken advantage of. It is ironic that the last time I paid for something that I didn't feel responsible for was when a long time customer recommended someone to me. I probably wouldn't work on anything for this guy again. In the case I described earlier about the people who thought we damaged her door our deductible was $1,000 so that was the minimum I was going to pay. I couldn't take that kind of hit at that time.

We normally give our guys Christmas day as a holiday plus close early on Christmas Eve. THis year we are going to give them an extra day. We will still be open on Saturday after Christmas but with a skeleton crew. It will be myself, my service manager, my service manager's son, and a former employee (working that one day). My service manager will spin wrenches as needed. This will give them a longer Holiday as a spiff plus a small cash bonus.

As we approach this Thanksgiving season, take just a few minutes to look at the link below. http://www.cpmsglife2.org/MSG/Pres/td/td1.html

What do you guys do as far as marking up dealer parts? Do you charge list or more than list?

We pay either a base guarantee or commission which ever is greater. Our commission is for parts and labor and has different % categories. Tires = 5%, oil changes and batteries = 10%, alignments = 30%, and everything else = 14%. At one point we paid our top tech 30% for all diagnosis time billed. Our better techs simply get a higher base guarantee. Our system isn't the best and I have considered changing it.

Ducks Quack, Eagles Soar! http://deepsm25.wordpress.com/2008/07/26/d...ck-eagles-soar/