ScottSpec

I am very curious as well. How can you fix a problem that Autel cannot. The issues I listed above are just the tip of the ice berg so to speak. These are just the issues I logged. I only listed the ones above that I could provide the logs for to back up my claims. I stopped logging after those as they were not even addressing them. There were many other issues with the scanner. It continually gives the message "This function is not supported" even though the function is listed on the menu. Sometimes it will even perform the function like resetting a service reminder, but will still give the message that the function is not supported. On one Volvo S80, it would not reset the reminder light through the normal menu. However, if you went into the DIM, you could then reset it. My lead tech is continually asking how can we trust what the tool is telling us or doing. We have the Volvo factory tools. We have the VST. We have VIDA. That is not the point. This tool is a piece of junk, Autel has told us they cannot fix the issues we are having and they said they would take the tool back. If they would actually take the tool back as they have told me they would, I would still respect them as a company. However, that is not the case. They now appear to be trying to avoid doing what they said they would. Scott

I did purchase the tool from a very reputable dealer. I have been working with him for over 25 years. I'm not sure how anyone could help me via TeamViewer with a defect that Autel admits they cannot fix. What can he do when Autel will not even return his or my calls. My problem is not with the dealer, it is with Autel. Autel has been completely unresponsive to all my data logs. They said their engineers could not resolve my issues and that they would allow the distributor to take the tool back. However, the distributor cannot take it back without an RMA number. The dealer, the distributor, and I have all been trying to get this from Autel. They have not responded to any of our calls or emails. Today I thought that I would try to contact the sales department. I was on hold for 15 minutes earlier today before I was disconnected. As I write this, I have been waiting on hold for 13 minutes for the sales department to answer the phone. Before I bought the pro, I had the DS708. It was exchanged twice for defects in the few months I owned it. I bought the pro because my dealer agreed to credit me for the DS708. I just hit 15 minutes on hold and was disconnected. I guess there is a 15 minute time out. I don't know what Autel company you sell products for, but it does not sound like the one I have been dealing with since March of this year. Scott

I'm copying and pasting this from something I previously wrote. Remember, the problems listed are just the ones I logged. And we pretty much stopped using the tool after some of these problems because we could not trust it. For the last several weeks, I have not been able to get in contact with them and they will not return my phone calls or emails. 03/18/2014 The Autel Maxisys Pro could not communicate with a 1998 Volvo S70 ECM 04/25/2014 The Autel Maxisys Pro could not communicate with another Volvo 70 series . In fact to this day it cannot connect to a 70 series Volvo ECM. 04/25/2014 The Autel Maxisys Pro got a function is not supported while trying to reset a oil reminder light on a Volvo S80. This is a very common message "function is not supported". Even thought the options are there. When you try to perform the test or activation, you just get the error "function is not supported". 04/26/2014 The Autel Maxisys Pro received this functionality is not available when trying to reset the transmission adaptives on a Volvo S80 04/30/2014 The Autel Maxisys Pro would not perform the VTC test on an Acura even though it was listed in the functionality. These are just the issues that I actually did a data log on to submit to Autel to correct. These issues are all still listed as open on my scanner. I have exchanged numerous phone calls and emails with Jon-Erik Balagot in technical support about my issues with the Autel Maxisys Pro. On April 28th, he wrote me the following. Good Day, They have notified the issue on this first issue. Regarding about the second issue. Only way to fix is to datalog so our engineer can find out why it failed to reset on the tool but light is off on the vehicle. Regarding about the DLC port. We had some issues with connection. Regarding about full bar or half bar of DLC. I apologize. I did not in touch with you on time. -- Jon-Erik Balagot Clearly admitting some issues on their end. On April 30th he wrote Good Day, I apologize for the late reply. I have no expected time with the Volvo issue. I'm really sorry about this. -- Jon-Erik Balagot Really? No idea when it might be resolved. On May 09, 2014 I received the following Good Day, Sorry for long wait. Update will be out either of end of this month or next month. I am sorry it is taking long. -- Jon-Erik Balagot Again, Really? A month or two before I can communicate with a Volvo ECM. After being patient for 6 months with no solutions and with more problems being experienced every day, on September 1st, 2014 I emailed the following. Jon-Erik, I cannot wait any longer. I have been very patient for months now. I need a scan tool that does what I need it to do now, so we can fix our customer’s cars now. I would like to return it for a full refund so I can buy a scanner that works. Is this something you can help me with? Scott Folley On 09/02/2014 I received the following reply Good Day, I apologize since we had this issue on Volvo and mentioned to you about how issue should be fix. Return of units will be handled by your seller. We do not control that. If you need further assistance, I can mentioned forward this issue to my supervisor. -- Jon-Erik Balagot There were several more phone calls over the last month between Jon-Erik, my tool dealer, and myself. In my last conversation with Jon-Erik, he asked me what I wanted to do. I told him that the Autel Maxisys Pro had too many issue that they have been unable to correct, that I wanted to return it. He said that since I had these issues, and they could not correct them, that I could return the Autel Maxisys Pro. He told me that he would contact the tool dealer to arrange this. This morning my tool dealer called me after a very heated and frustrating conversation with Jon-Eric. He informed me that Jon-Eric is in complete agreement with the fact that there are issues with this product that they cannot correct for me but that they are not willing to take it back as they first stated they would. In fact my tool dealer was so frustrated with their position that he said he is going to return all the Autel products he has on his truck and will no longer sell any of their products. From others around the web. If you go to the YouTube video posted above, you will find the following comments. I call several times and days last week and they never answer the phone. latest Bluetooth is 2.0? Are you kidding me?? And then saying sparred no expense.... AUTEL TECHNICAL SUPPORT IS VERY VERY POOR, AFTER I BOUGHT MY SCANNER I PHONED AUTEL FOR SOME HELP, AUTEL SAID THEY WOULD RING ME STRAIGHT BACK, I AM STILL WAITING, THAT WAS OVER A YEAR AGO, AUTEL PROMISE THE WORLD DELIVER NOTHING,I WOULD NOT EVEN RECOMMEND THERE SCANNER FOR DIY USE FACT!! are you talking about these cheaters.They have launched maxisys pro with J2534 VCI device according to Autel it can flash any car and here in Qatar after buying this thing for $3000 one poor guy found that it don't support any JAPAN made cars. These are pure cheaters.They came to market to cheat people nothing else. Any by directional capabilities.. I bought the autel elite.. It's said it had by directional dint work on a 96 Buick a could not communicate with other modules on the car other as advertised If you are considering the Autel Maxisys Pro. I would highly discourage you from purchasing this scanner also highly recommend staying away from all this companies products.

Thanks for the clarification on your dealer's service. When someone says the dealers don't support them, it usually means they expect something beyond good service from them. What I hear you saying now is you are tired of the very poor service you get from the dealer and I can see why you would not want to deal with them based on that. It sounds like your location creates a real challenge when it comes to purchasing parts. Not sure what can be done about that. Scott

Russ, I'm sure that these companies have some quality parts available. However, a lot of the parts are not. If a shop is buying from these suppliers on a regular basis, then they should not be surprised when it bites them in the butt. It sounds like you sell NAPA's first line products with confidence. However, it looks like you have done this only after determining which parts meet your quality standard and which ones don't. But more importantly, I'll bet you have have a big NAPA sign outside your shop so customers know what they are getting. The part that frustrates me is when people pass these parts off as something they are not. Scott

My first suggestion would be to buy and sell quality parts. I just finished talking to a customer who continually tells me how we are good but expensive. I asked him what was cheaper a steak dinner at his favorite restaurant or McDonald's. His response was McDonald's sucks. Maybe the market you are in won't support selling quality parts. I can certainly understand that. Even we are having a harder time convincing customers of the value in quality parts lately, but I would never sell inferior parts and consider and or represent them as a quality part. Also would not be surprise when the car came back because one of those parts failed. I'm not sure what you mean by the dealer won't support you. The dealer is a business like yours. They sell you parts. What else are you expecting from them? We deal with several dealers every day and for the most part get great service and quality parts. I hope this response does not come off the wrong way, but I have spent 25 years installing quality parts and selling value. It frustrates me when shop owners, coaches, and advisers give advise about how we need to take care of customers and give them a great experience, only to find out they don't even care enough about the customer and their safety to use quality parts. Some of these same people talk about how we have to change the way the public perceives us. That we need to get them to see us for the professionals we are. How is that going to happen when so many shop owners don't even care about the quality of the parts they are using? Scott

I purchased the Autel Maxisys Pro earlier this year and have had nothing but problems with it. They finally agreed to take it back a month or so ago. Since then, they have given my tool dealer and his supplier the run around, now they will not return any of my phone calls or emails. If you are considering purchasing any Autel product, I would highly recommend not buying from them. Scott Folley

I purchased the Autel Maxisys Pro earlier this year and have had nothing but problems with it. They finally agreed to take it back a month or so ago. Since then, they have given my tool dealer and his supplier the run around, now they will not return any of my phone calls or emails. If you are considering purchasing any Autel product, I would highly recommend not buying from them. Scott Folley

Joe, This is going to sound a bit harsh, but I don't know how else to say it. If you are buying parts from places like NAPA, CARQUEST, Advance or O'Reillys, then you have no right to complain about the problems they are causing you. You seem very knowledgeable about this business, so I find it very difficult to believe that you think that you can buy quality parts from these companies on a regular basis. In one of your other posts you wrote: We need to improve our image, hire the best people, adopt a culture of continuous training, speak to all customers as if they are best friends or family, inform them of needed future services, book the next service, sell preventive maintenance and deliver world-class customer service. Most important; Create the customer experience so memorable, so enjoyable, so rewarding that when they leave your shop, they think to themselves…. “That was a great experience, I’m coming back.” I would like to know how you do that when you use parts of questionable quality on a regular basis. We purchase quality parts from reputable suppliers, and I can probably count on one hand how many problems we have this year with the parts we have installed. Scott Folley

There a couple of typos in the search parameters of the first link. repiar and soeftware. Google corrects them without any issue though. And I love it because my SMS site comes up as #3 in the organic search www.smotgoinfo.com

Jakethomasmaine, It seems no one has actually answered the question you asked. I think that is because the focus has shifted to the bigger question, why do you want to create an SMS. You wrote that the shops you want to build it for have limited budgets, so that would lead me to believe that you already have some idea that making money from a SMS is challenging. I have been a shop owner for the last 25 years and my biggest hobby is computers, networking, software development (mostly database application), and web development. I launched a Web Based or SMS in early 2013 https://www.smotgo.com, so I may be able to answer some of your questions. xrac and mmotley both have some pretty good points. But as I said it really gets back to why you want to do this. I'm going to assume that it is not for the money. So far I have spent about $20,000.00 mostly for marketing, and have no real expectation of profiting from it. Although I am in some talks now that may lead to some revenue. If you just want to help these few shops into something more productive for their shops then QuickBooks, there probably is no need to reinvent the wheel as there are quite a few programs out there. Your time might be better used teaching them how to use a program. I think a lot of them are quite dated, and some pretty old technology. Most are still PC based with antiquated licensing methods and difficult installation and set up. I believe the main reason for this is that there is not much money in the SMS market so you will not see huge investments in it. The big companies like AllData, Mitchel, etc. want to sell you there info. The SMS portion is a giveaway and not a lot of resources are put into them as you can see by mmotley's comments. There are some good reasons to reinvent the wheel. Things can always be improved, mine included. Fortunately others thought the wheel could be reinvented, otherwise we might still be riding around on wooden wheels with spokes. My SMS is a Web App. There is no installation and no back ups to worry about. You can go to https://www.smotgo.com create an account and your first invoice in about 5 minutes. It can be accessed from any modern web browser with an internet connection. I've created and emailed invoices from the inside of a vehicle I was working on from my smart phone. I grab a laptop or tablet walk in the back, check my inventory then email my purchase orders before I leave the parts area. As I write this I am sitting on my front lawn with my new dog. I am looking at our schedule for the week and to see if any employees have scheduled time off for the week. In the mornings, I log in to see what is scheduled for the day. I can do this from my smart phone as well. My employees log in so they can see what is on the schedule. Some log in on their days off to see what kind of work we are doing that day. Each employee has a computer and can access the vehicle's history, the customer's info, as well as the inventory info. I can send out email reminders from my smart phone as well as estimates, invoices, or links to the smotgoauto.com companion site where customers can go to see and approve estimates or view any file you have uploaded for their vehicle (dtc printout, images, tsb's, ect.) These are just some of the features off the top of my head that are not available in most SMS programs. So, back to your original question. First, don't discount, but do limit the value of the feedback you get from shop owners. Shop owners, like most people, myself included, quite often think we want something till we get it. Then we realize it was not quite as we imagined and that new toy just sits on the shelf. The best ideas come from observation. Watch how a program is used and find ways to make it better, faster, and easier to use. I watch my service manager all the time. When I see something that frustrates him, I know that is where something can be done better. Here is some advise I was given a little over a year ago by someone who had built an SMS. He told me that his experience showed him that most small shops just wanted to create an invoice as quickly as possible and that I should just throw away a lot of the features I had put in mine. While I don't totally agree with him, his assessment is pretty accurate and you touched on this in your last sentence. As far as all the advanced reporting, I have some fairly basic reporting with the plan to add reports as requested, and have not had any request for anything more advanced. Most people are concerned about their data and they should be. There are certainly some advantages a large company can bring to the table. However, I think being able to move data in and out of a program should be a user's first concern. As we have found out, there is no too big to fail and no one likes it when their data is held hostage. Also, there is no company that can help you if your data is lost or corrupted for some reason. Parts, labor, and part ordering integration is the weakest area of my SMS for a number of reasons, and is probably the most requested feature. email me or post here if you have any more questions. [email protected] Scott

DUFRESNES, If you want to do it yourself, we use Godaddy Website builder and Wordpress. If you just want a basic website with a few pages that you can upload some pictures to I suggest the Godaddy option. If you are looking for something a little more advanced then I would look at Wordpress. My office manger maintains the godaddy site at http://www.4volvoservice.com/ it's still a work in progress. I manage the Wordpress site http://www.ssautosvc.com/ because I like the blog and it's easy to post to. If you have any questions, you can email me directly. [email protected] or [email protected]. Scott

First we do take a few minutes to make sure we did not cause the issue. We have been wrong at times and we always keep and open mind to the fact that we may have caused an issue. It also shows the customer you care and stand behind your work. We want customers to trust us, so we have to be willing to trust what they are telling us. When a customer tells me that an issue started after we serviced their vehicle, I have to believe them unless I know without a doubt that it is not true. However, once I am relatively sure we did not cause the issue, I then treat the issue like any other that come it. I inform the customer of the next step and the cost to diagnose or repair the issue. I know a lot of shops like to tell customers right up front that they must pay for diagnostic time which will then be reimbursed if it is found that the shop caused the issue. I'm sure we've done this before, but I'm sure you can imagine why this might not go over well with the customer. Right or Wrong, at that point with very few facts, both parties believe it's the other's responsibility to correct the issue and the other does not want to take responsibility for it. So they will quickly become as frustrated with you as you are with them. What if the customer insisted you pay for another shop to diagnose the issue and if it was found to be unrelated, then they would reimburse you? Once we inform our customer of the next step, and they don't want to accept our analysis that we did not cause the issue, then here is what I tell them. "I can understand why you might not trust what I am telling you. You can take your vehicle to any licensed automotive repair facility and we will pay any reasonable fees to diagnose and repair the issue, provided the other facility clearly documents on the invoice exactly how the work we performed or the parts we replaced caused this issue." I have never once had to pay on this policy. This has work very well for us over the years as it minimizes arguments with customers, shows you are willing to take responsibility, and they cannot honestly claim that you are dishonest, or that you don't stand behind your work. In fact it gives you more credibility because you are suggesting an independent evaluation. Scott

When I set up my new location 15 years ago, I installed a small shower, and I'm glad I did. It's true it may go months without being used, but it does get a fair amount of use. First, it's nice to have during the work day should you get sprayed with oil, coolant, or some other chemical. The employees mostly use it when they have plans to go out after work. I have an employee who goes to his In-Laws on Thursdays for dinner quite often. It probably saves him about an hour showering at the shop rather then going all the way home to get ready first. Another employee has at times ridden his bike to work, he thinks he sweats a lot and stinks so he showers when he gets in. Several years ago while going through a divorce for various reasons, I was using the shower daily. I also suggest asking your employees what they think. Scott

First, I have found that I am better off without this type of customer. I have fired many customers of the years. They are a financial drain, but more damaging is the psychological drain on everyone in the shop. Customer satisfaction is one of our goals and in order to achieve that goal, you need to have a customer with reasonable expectations. You may want to ask yourself why he keeps calling you for help. In my experiences, people will usually not continue behavior that is not rewarded. Are you answering his questions, giving him the info that he needs? "Feeding the dog" as they say. When customers or other shops call me for "advice", I usually give a few vague or generic answers. Then at the first opportunity, I usually say, I would need to see it, test it, or some variation of this. This way, one of 2 things will happen. You will get some work, or they will go bother someone else. I think this is a very graceful way of dealing with it because you don't come across rude or incompetent. Scott

If you would like a program to try for free check out smotgo.com. It's my creation, I use it to run our shop and have made it available to any shop that wants to use it. It does lack some of the features of the larger commercial packages, but it also has some powerful features that they do not. It is web based so you can access it anywhere you have an internet connection. There is no software to install and you can use it on as many devices as you want. You can email your vendors and customers right from the site. It might not serve all your needs, but it might at least be enough to get you up and running until you find something that does. You can find out more about it at smotgoinfo.com or let me know if you have any questions at [email protected] Scott

I send out email reminders and mail reminders weekly to any customer we have not seen in the last 4 months. I usually send out the email reminders a week ahead of the mail. That way if the customer responds to the email, I will save the cost of the mail. I'm going to plug my shop management web site here because that is what I use to send them. It's Smotgo.com. You can use the generic messages there or create your own. If you already have a shop management program and you can export your customers, you can upload them to the site and just use the communications tools. We call customers 3 days after they have been in to say thanks and at times call customers that we have not seen or who have come up as being due for service. This has had minimal success. Scott

This may sound a bit out there, but there are times when I have wondered how things would work if we just sold all parts at our cost. I think it would deter customers from wanting to bring their own parts or to be tempted to buy the parts elsewhere and they would save some money on sales tax. We would no longer have to worry about parts margins etc. I've even considered just paying tax on all parts purchases, passing that along to the customer as the cost, and get away from collecting and paying the tax. It might mean doubling our labor and adding service fees, to make up the difference. Again, just an idea I have played with and thought I would share. Scott

I would like to expand on the question about RepairPal. Has anyone compared their prices to the RepairPal estimates? I'm trying to guage how accurate they are so I can compare them to our invoices. Scott

I have used Adwords for years, it is the most successful thing I have ever used to advertise. It has brought me more business than any other form of advertising. While Google's interface i a bit confusing, you can pause or delete your campaigns vey easily. That is the pros. The cons. It now cost a small fortune. I started using it many years ago. Not too many shops were using it then. That made it very affordable. I have pretty much stopped using it because the cost is about 20-40 times more now. While we did get a lot of work, we probably broke even by the time we paid for Adwords. I think it is a good tool to to get something jump started. Like if you are just starting out and want to get some cars in the door. Bing, Yahoo, & Facebook have done nothing for us. I used it to launch my shop management website smotgo.com over the last year. Over 600 people created accounts. I think that is pretty successful, but it was about an $18,000.00 investment. But, without it there is no way I would have reached all those people. When I checked the shops numbers, I calculated about $150,000.00 worth of work over the last few years from Adwords customers. It's hard to totally quantify this value as you don't know what those customers will spend in the future and how much their referrals might be worth, but I spend about $75,000.00 on Adwords, so I'm thinking Google probably did a little better in that deal than I did. You can tune and target you advertising, and set a budget, but then you also limit your opportunities.

bstewart, I am the creator of SMOTGO and the videos. We use it everyday to run our shop. We have a 5 bay shop. I would be happy to answer any questions you may have. The shop I own is in Rockville, MD so we are not too far from you. I'm not necessarily trying to remain anonymous. I run a shop full time and this is my hobby/pet project. While I answer any and all questions via email, I am not in a position to offer any type of phone support at this time. So I don't broadcast the connection between my shop and the program to try to mitigate the phone calls. I think you have already picked up on the weakest points of the program, the lack of integration. One of the biggest reasons for this currently is the lack of integration/support from parts and labor vendors. SMOTGO is a web app. Like you said cloud based. There are only 2 other apps. like this that I am aware of. Most of the integration out there is for desktop programs. I've been in touch with RealTime and they are supposed to notify me once they can support a web app. I have tried to contact WorldPac, but have not gotten very far. On there site they say they are working on integration with Omnique which is web app, so I have to believe they are still building the systems. I've had some discussions with Ramac and they are also working on something. So for now, if you go with a web app. you may find integration lacking. It is certainly my desire to have integration, but for now I have to wait for it to become more mainstream. As you read on the site, we do as much as we can to protect your personal information. We have no interest in this info, in fact, you don't need to enter anything more than a last name and a tag number to create an invoice. I'm building a tool for shops like mine. I do hope to find some sponsors in time. This app. is great for a shops that are just starting out as you said, but I think it is a bit more powerful than that. I think this app. can serve small and mid sized shops pretty well. It has a lot of features that some of the more established programs do not. No installation, no backups to worry about, no limit to the number of computers it is used on, runs on anything with a browser, can be used anywhere you have an internet connection. I love being able to check our schedule from home before I head into work. the employees love that also. The can check the schedule any time they want so they know what is going on. I can hang out with the kids at home with my laptop and work on invoices or inventory. While the integration is lacking at this time, there is a copy and paste feature which allows you to copy info from a catalog you already have and then paste those into an invoice. They can also be added to inventory at the same time. Let me know if you have any other questions. Scott

I think Joe gives a really great overall explanation. To put it simply, you just need to ask yourself, does this service create value for my customer and for my business. If your customer loves having a rental car, but it is lowering your bottom line, what is the point in doing it. I think rental cars are one of the easiest added service to offer, and the most beneficial for customers. It's the least disruptive to their lives and it does not require you to have one of your employees sitting outside someones house or driving around looking for them for 45 minutes. However, we do not offer them because of the expense. If you are considering offering rental cars and you are thinking about purchasing your own, I suggest you really do the math with regards to cost. First is insurance. Someone here mentioned that is was not that bad. I have to wonder if that insurance company knows exactly what that car is being used for. Because when I inquired I was shocked at the cost. Also, logically it seems like maintenance would be minimal as you would do the repairs yourself, but when I did the math, I was surprised how much more it was than I thought. Then there is gas. If you want the customer to take care of this, it starts to take away some of the value of the "free loaner car". The last one and the most important in my opinion is the liability. Is it worth losing your business should something go wrong while a customer is driving that car. Occasionally we will "get a customer a loaner car". We call Enterprise, the customer does the paperwork with them and when they return the car, we pay the bill. The only liability we incur is the rental fee. There is a large Mercedes dealer near us that advertises that they have over 100 rental cars. They use Enterprise. Our Home Depot rents trucks. This is all done through Penske. I believe these companies know is is more cost effective to do it that way and that it limits their liability. I would love to hear what you decide and how it works out for you. Scott

More than likely you have nothing to worry about. However, it really depends on how hard the customer wants to push it. Any time I have a vehicle that I think the owner has abandoned, I call a local lien company. This is what they do, and it shifts the responsibility on to them to make sure everything is done properly. The reason I say that ultimately it depends on the customer, is because you can be sued for just about anything. We did a repair on a vehicle that was under $300.00 for a local used car dealer. We tried to contact him and left numerous messages for about 90 days. After that, we went through the lien process. At the end of the process, he filed a lawsuit against us (to challenge the validity of the lien process), we then filed one against him. He asked for $10,000.00 in punitive damages to take it out of small claims court just so I would have to incur significant legal fees from my lawyer. We prevailed because we had done everything correctly (had all our records of the work that was done, when the calls were made, the lien filing, etc.) and had a good attorney. We prevailed in both cases and we were even awarded attorney's fees which is rather unusual. The total award was around $4200.00. It was a nice victory, except we were now up to about $8000.00 in legal fees. Now he is appealing the decisions. We go to court next month and we have already spent another $3000.00 defending the appeal. I'm expecting another $3000.00 before the hearing is over and who knows from there. I'm hoping the judge will find the whole situation as insane as it truly is and this craziness will end. So like so many of the issues all of us deal with everyday, the customers mental state has so much to do with it. I don't know how much he has spent in attorney's fees, I do know he is out at least $4200.00 and his time. I can't image any sane person that would that much money, time, and energy over a $300.00 repair. Scott

This is a little off topic, but it touches on something I have been thinking about doing and wonder if anyone has any experience with this idea. I am considering renting out lifts with tools to anyone who wants to work on their own cars. Has anyone ever tried this? Scott

I tried to have my lifts inspected once a year. We preach the benefits to routine maintenance to our customers, why is it any different when it comes to the equipment in our shops. Scott