IntegrityAutoCare

Labor claims are a whole different beast...and a headache at that! *lol* So do I understand you correctly that you are saying you mark up parts as part of some kind of extra labor warranty? I had never thought of that. I guess I could start offering that, but even if I did I would offer it as an OPTIONAL additional cost for labor warranty on parts. I would ask the customer up front if they wanted to pay extra for labor warranty on their parts and if not I could simply explain that in the event of a failure the part would be covered under the manufacturer warranty, but they would have to pay the labor cost again. Up to this point I just buy the highest quality parts I can get and hope for the best. Some times high quality parts are simply NOT available at all, though, and I have had to eat a few labor bills due to that (NOBODY makes decent P/S pumps these days). I do most of my business through Advance Auto Parts and they have been good to reimburse my labor the couple times I needed it...part of being a good parts store. So much of it depends on local management, also, though. I am admittedly a fairly new business owner, so all of these suggestions you guys are making I am taking into consideration.

Exactly, and as a customer of each of those different fields I have felt ripped off on most occasions, and I know I am not the only one (otherwise there wouldn't have been a 20?20 special on it). That $54 aspirin is outrageous to me! Is it not to all of you??? Does it comfort you to have it explained that those poor pitiful doctors who live in three story mansions in the suburbs and go out on their yachts every weekend are "just trying to make a living" or that it's "just the way the industry works"? One key difference between the medical industry and ours is that in our industry our customers have options. Capitalism still exists in truest form. If they don't like the way I do business then they can go three blocks down the street to a different shop....if I don't like the way I was treated or billed in the ER I have very few other options to explore except possibly just to let myself bleed. On a side note, does anyone see correlations to maybe why so many customers try to work on their own vehicles or ignore problems altogether until their car absolutely quits them? I do the same thing in regards to medical issues...unless I am convinced I am about to DIE if I don't, I will not step foot into a hospital emergency room. You are correct that I will lose the customer who is calling around checking labor rates for his Valve spring job. I can live with that. I still won't mark up parts. It usually evens out though because of the one type of job that you are forgetting about: Ignition module replacement: $250 part and 0.25 hours labor time. I could charge them the 0.25 labor at $100 an hour ($25.00) and then mark up the $250 part to $375 for a total bill of $400.00 -----OR----- I could sell the part for the $250 and charge the 0.25 labor time $150 per hour ($37.50) for a total bill of $287.50 Which customer do you think will feel ripped off and which do you think will come back to me for the brake job next month? And what happens when the first customer looks at his invoice and sees that $375 ignition module only to call the parts store and find out that he could have gotten it himself for $250! Do you really think that customer is going to bring me any more of their business? Personally I would have trouble sleeping at night taking that extra $112.50 out of that customer's pocket when I really didn't do ANYTHING to earn it. I certainly would have trouble justifying to that customer when they came back to my shop IRATE exactly what I did to earn that extra $112.50...and even if I came up with an explanation I doubt he would believe it or it would make him feel any better for being $112.50 lighter. And what do I tell the first customer who called for an estimate and I told them it would be $375 for the part and $25 for the labor when they come strolling in with the part in hand they just bought for $250 at the parts store and want me to put it on for $25 labor? I don't know how YOU GUYS handle this situation, but when I worked at shops before (who marked up parts) this is the point where my boss would get very irate at the customer and RUN THEM OUT THE DOOR! If he was in a particularly good mood he would simply refuse to install the part unless the customer was willing to pay the extra $112.50 as a "customer supplied parts" fee....which consequently accomplished the exact same result as his other reaction. I take that same customer that walks into the door and greet them KINDLY and tell them I would be GLAD to install their part for the $37.50 labor charge that we talked about on the phone. I then proceed to explain to them that because they supplied their own part, I could not honor any warranty on it (which covers my @$$) and then I proudly tell them about my policy of NOT marking up parts so that next time they can just go ahead and let me get the part for them and they won't even have to worry about it...plus I will be able to honor the part manufacturer's warranty. Like I said before, I have had MANY positive responses from this practice and have gained quite a few customers from just such situations. I feel like I am serving my customers in a much more direct and honest way and I sleep like a baby at night.

I wouldn't consider this to be comparable to parts mark up. What I pay the restaurant for is NOT the meat itself, I am paying them for their time, energy, and knowledge to select and prepare the steak in a way that is perfectly delicious so that I don't have to do it myself. If I could get a fully prepared delicious high quality steak with all the extras for $6.00 a pound then I would never eat at outback again! They take the raw piece of meat and manipulate it into my fully prepared meal...THAT is what I pay them for. What service is my customer paying me for when I call the parts store and they deliver the $100.00 part right into my hand and then I turn around and sell it for $180.00? That would be like Outback bringing out a raw piece of steak they bought for $6.00 after not doing ANYTHING at all to it, slapping it onto my plate and saying "That will be $27.50." I would be outraged! If I wanted a raw piece of meat I could have gone to a meat market and bought one myself for the $6.00! I would feel ripped off. The same is true for our customers. I have found that the customers respond much more positively when it is clearly defined exactly what they are paying me for. Just like at the restaurant, what my customers pay me for is my knowledge, expertise, and labor. I figure out what part their car needs (diagnostics) and then install it for them (labor) so they don't have to do it themselves. The ONLY time I mark up a part is if I had to go to extra effort (aka...WORK) to acquire it. If I have to research online or spend 30 minutes calling different junk yards trying to find some obscure or rare part then I will mark up the final price of that part to account for the TIME and EFFORT I spent acquiring it. I charge them for EXACTLY the services I render to them and lay it all out clearly on my invoice. I fail to see how, as phynny insists, this can be considered a "dishonest" business practice.

OUCH! That was a low blow! I guess I can see why defying the unwritten laws of "parts markup justification" would be offensive to many shop owners. I apologize if my posts seemed like they were attacking any (or as I imagine MOST of you) who do mark up your parts. I assure you that was not my intention at all. I didn't mean to imply that anyone is being dishonest by marking up parts, only that from a customer's standpoint I think that is how they view us a lot of times because that is how I viewed mechanics before I became one. And based on the feedback of my own customers and potential clientele in my area that is how many people view us. Personally, I don't do it this way because I think I can undermine other shops with a "clever strategy" and steal their business or even because I think I can gain more customers - in fact I probably LOSE some of those potential customers who are calling around "price checking" because I have to tell them my hourly labor rate is higher than some other shops (even though my overall repair costs are about the same). I may lose profit overall by doing it this way...I don't know. My decision to NOT mark up parts wasn't based on any sound business strategy or proven financial model that I am aware of. My decision to do it this way was based solely on the fact that this is the way I would want it done FOR ME if I were the customer. Simple as that. I am not advocating that everyone should switch over to my way of doing things, but all I can tell you is that this is how I am doing things and I feel good about it and I have gotten a VERY positive response from my customers in regards to it. My business is going strong: I have several (more than I can keep up with actually) good quality customers, almost all of which are repeat business, my overhead is low, my stress level is non-existent (at least in regards to work, *lol*) and my personal bills are getting paid. That's enough for me at this point. I am very content with the way things are going.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. Speaking in strict business terms maybe it isn't the most lucrative practice, but in my mind (having been a customer once myself) I think it is more upfront and honest. As Wes Daniel stated, I am not actually charging the customer any LESS money overall, I am just being more transparent about WHAT they are paying for. I am not in the parts business. I have no inventory or warehouses or shelves or stockrooms. I don't spend any time whatsoever organizing, labelling, zoning, merchandising displays, or any othe type of work that would justify (in my mind) making a profit off of part sales. To me it is similar to looking at my water bill or electric bill and seeing a whole bunch of obscure fees, taxes, and miscellaneous charges that I have NO IDEA what they actually are. I would much rather my bill state simply the amount of water that I used and how much they charged me for it. From a business stand point I guess I can see how it would be easier for them to make more money the way they do it NOW, but it also makes me (the customer) feel like they are ripping me off.

I don't publish my hourly labor rate or include book labor times on my estimates or invoices for just this reason. When I give an estimate I include dollar amounts for parts, labor, and tax, but never actual projected times or rates. So far I haven't had any problem. I have had very few people ask me what my "hourly rate" is and the ones that did were just calling (probably every shop in town) to see who was the cheapest. I gladly told them I had NO INTEREST in being the cheapest shop in town and let them go on to the next phone call. In my experience the customer who is simply looking for the CHEAPEST anything is not the kind of customer I really want. This may be better off started as a separate topic, but on a side note I do not mark up my parts. I charge the customer the exact same amount for a part that they would pay if they walked into the part store and bought it. The only profit I make off of parts is whatever "discount" the part store gives me, which is based on my monthly sales with that parts store and usually NOT very much. Personally I would rather charge a much HIGHER hourly labor rate so that at least it is clear and honest what the customer is paying me for. Little to no actual work is done in the process of me acquiring parts from the parts store (a phone call and a free delivery). I have discovered that people appreciate this level of honesty and it allows me to avoid all kinds of issues such as the customer getting upset because the price I charged him for the part was quite a bit higher than the price he was given when he called the parts store and also gives me the freedom not to chase away those customers who insist on "supplying their own parts". Must be nice. In Arkansas I have to collect sales tax on parts AND labor.

maybe It can't hurt to try! *lol* Make a new post with the year model and engine size, etc and what code it's tripping and who knows what the brains on this forum might be able to do for you....

Just out of curiosity, what was your final decision on this issue and if you DID decide to offer loaner vehicles, how is it working for you?

I am at a loss. I guess I was naïve to think that if you just treat people fairly and communicate well that ALL customers could be reached and would be sensible. Unfortunately it's just not true. A lot of you probably know exactly the type of customer I am referring to...that customer that you DON'T want. This particular customer started out as a referral from a couple other of my GOOD customers, so I thought "Great...another referral!" I had just done a front brake job for a coworker of hers a few months earlier so she called me and asked if I could do her front brakes "as well". I put the term "as well" in quotation marks because in the span of about 3 sentences she said it (it seemed like) about FIFTY times! Not that I am poking fun at people, you understand, I only say that to illustrate my point that this particular customer is a HORRIBLE communicator and it turns out she is just as bad, if not worse, a listener. And she is dumb as a rock. And I am pretty sure she is mentally unstable. Again, I feel childish even talking about another person in this manner and please understand I harbor no ill feeling toward her except that she WILL NOT leave me alone and find another mechanic. This is not an angry rant. You may think it's harsh to call her dumb, and maybe it is, but to give you an example the whole reason she thought she needed brakes was because when she parks her car on a hill and puts the shifter in "park" she noticed that the car rolls a little bit after she lets off her brake pedal. So after repeated efforts to explain to her that the sensation she described had NOTHING to do with the brakes, she simply was not getting it. Sometimes I wonder how people like that even get drivers licenses when they don't even understand the basics of how a car operates (not how it works....just how it OPERATES). The worst part was she kept INSISTING that she knew ALOT about cars and how to fix them because her dad was a mechanic (or something of that nature). This was getting worse by the minute. I took the wheels off of her car and as it turns out the whole chassis and undercarriage are almost solid RUST. Her brake pads were worn out in both the front and back and the rotors in front were already below minimum DISCARD thickness. The rust corrosion had eaten away the front caliper brackets to the point that the pads were not able to move freely across the slide rails and all the brake hoses had cracks and tears in the rubber. This car was going to need ALOT of work to even make it safe! Long story short she said she didn't have enough money to fix everything all at once so I tried to do her a favor and prioritize the repairs for her....fixing the most dangerous issues first. I replaced the front brake pads, caliper brackets, and rotors first because I have personally experienced the feeling of driving down the interstate at 70mph and stepping on the brake pedal only to have it fall straight to the floor due to the fact that the rotors were too thin and the pads were worn enough that the caliper piston actually came OUT of its bore thus immediately dumping all brake fluid and making the brakes inoperable. VERY scary. After that I replaced the front two brake hoses because they looked the worst and because I figured a loss of rear brakes would give the driver a much greater chance of survival than would a loss of front brakes (which account for most of the braking percentage). That was all she had enough money for and all I had time for that day. I told her, however that she needed to AT LEAST replace those rear brake hoses ASAP because if one of them burst (which could happen at any time) it could be a major safety hazard for her and any drivers in her general vicinity. She made it pretty clear that she didn't trust me and implied that I didn't really know what I was talking about (her dad was a mechanic "as well", remember?). I again implored her to, even if she didn't have ME fix it, get her brakes taken care of as soon as she possibly could for her own safety! At this point I was actually hoping to never see her again and that she would find some other mechanic to use in the future. No such luck. She called me about 2 months later to inquire how much it would cost to get her oil changed. I told her that I charged $xx.xx for labor plus the actual cost of parts (oil, filter, etc) so that it would depend on how many quarts of oil it held and the cost of the filter, etc. I told her for most cars it usually worked out to be about $35 or $40. She scheduled the oil change. I guess part of me was assuming that she had taken my advice and got her brakes fixed somewhere else (maybe she then realized I was telling her the truth and was beginning to trust me) but in the back of my mind I knew the truth. She had not taken it anywhere else nor did she intend to. Her car was "driveable" so she was driving it. I made up my mind that if that was the case I would not do any more work for her in the future. When I arrived to pick up the vehicle she had left the keys in it with a note saying the money was in the glove box just leave the keys under the mat when I dropped the car back off. I looked in the glove box and found $35....uh, doesn't anyone know the meaning of the word ESTIMATE these days??? Feeling annoyed, I went ahead and serviced her car and then looked underneath to see what it looked like. Of course, her brake hoses were in even worse shape than when I had looked at them before and her back brakes had not been touched. I wrote a note on her invoice (which luckily happened to be only a few cents over the $35 she left for me) saying that for MY OWN personal safety I refused to drive her vehicle again and that I could not in good conscience ETHICALLY perform any other service to the vehicle until she had the brakes taken care of and that my recommendation was for her to not drive the vehicle again either until she was able to do so. I was hoping that would make her mad enough to take it somewhere else and I would never have to deal with her again. Again...no such luck. She has since texted me, called me, and left voicemails about 5 different times wanting me to give her a price to replace "JUST the rear brake hoses". I have been completely ignoring her altogether. TWO MONTHS I have been ignoring her calls, texts, and voicemails....what is it gonna take for her to take the hint? She called me again today. She wanted to know how much to fix her rear brake hoses and if I could do it today or tomorrow. I wish I had time to write out for you guys the whole conversation, but even if I did my head might literally explode. I basically told her that it would cost somewhere between $300 and $500 for me to fix the rear brakes for her and that was ONLY an estimate and not a guaranteed price and that if I worked on it at all I was going to completely fix whatever needed to be fixed to make it safe to drive. I said that was the ONLY way I was willing to do it because I refused to take shortcuts especially where safety is a concern. I also told her I would not be able to get to it for two weeks (which is true). She got mad and said that $300 sounded like ALOT of money to fix the brake hoses. UGH! I calmly and patiently explained it AGAIN. Now she says she will check back with me in 2 weeks about getting those brake hoses fixed. How do you talk to people like that? What should I do? ADVICE anyone? I really would like to just never talk to this lady again. I'm not sure which would be worse publicity for my business, completely ignoring her or HELPING her and she spreading all around town how I cheated her and charged her $500 for brake hoses!

VERY interesting video and interesting thoughts!

While I agree with you about this in some aspects (selling the tests as separate from the repair and charging enough for diagnostics) in many ways I have thought just the opposite also: that the medical profession needs to adopt a lot of the practices of the auto repair industry! I highly suspect that the healthcare crisis would not be half as bad as it is now if people were just informed before hand about how much things were going to cost and explained the risks, benefits, and ACTUAL need for each line item they would be charged for. If I had known that the "complimentary" breast pump the nurses so cheerfully gave us while we were in the maternity ward just after the birth of my daughter was ACTUALLY going to cost $300 (when the exact same model can be bought independently for $25) then I would have told them where to shove it and gone to walmart to buy one myself. They didn't ask if I had insurance (which I did not) to cover the cost of that super-expensive item. Imagine if we tried to mark up our parts percentage as much as hospitals mark up the cost of an aspirin they give you in the ER? We would be out of business pretty quickly I imagine (if not on the 10:00 news)...yet somehow the health insurance industry gives us AND doctors/hospitals the illusion that "we" are not really the ones paying for our actual healthcare expenses so they can mark it up as much as they want and we don't even bother to ask for an itemized invoice. It's all just shady and inefficient business practice, in my opinion. I know that really doesn't have much to do with the OP, but just had to throw in my little rant. *lol*

I'm a one man shop, but my procedure is to lower the car down and then go get the torque wrench and set it in the driver's seat (before looking up specs or doing anything else) in order to make sure I don't forget. So far I haven't forgotten any.

Thanks to BOTH of you guys for the responses. I was actually wondering about the inner cv joint as well (due to the shudder being on acceleration) and at $55 for a new one I think I'm just gonna replace that and maybe take a close look at those mounts to make sure everything looks good. Just out of curiosity, why do you find it odd that I would post this question here? Where better to get repair/diagnostic help then in a "repair/diagnostic help" sub-forum of a website for auto repair shop owners? *lol* I have actually never heard of either one of those services you recommended, but I will definitely look into the IATN as it is much closer to my price range (one bay shop, single owner/operator/receptionist/bookkeeper/administrator/janitor/etc). I was using a forum called "ask-a-tech" through my Mitchell ProDemand membership but then they decided to require an ADDED paid subscription to use that forum on top of what I am already paying for pro-demand so I decided to boycott them. *lol* Petty I know. I am in my first year of business, though, and barely in the black....gotta really watch my expenses! As the old saying goes, a penny saved is a penny earned! As for today I have saved at least 15,000 pennies by picking you guys' brains instead of going to a paid website. Hopefully one day I will have the opportunity to return the favor and share some of my own knowledge with you or someone else who needs it. And why SHOULDN'T we share information like that and help each other fix cars and save money (thus running our businesses more efficiently)? Isn't that what this website is all about?

Need you guys to throw out some ideas for me. Transmissions are admittedly a weak point for me as I know very little about them. About 6 months ago the transmission went out on my service van (1994 Plymouth Grand Voyager 3.8L) and so I bought one from salvage, changed the filter and fluid, and replaced it. It has done well up until this point, but lately I have noticed it has started to shudder on acceleration (feels like the whole front end is shaking from side to side!) at about 20 or 25 mph and then if you get up and faster than it will keep shaking even after I let off the accelerator. I have discovered that if I shift it into neutral while this is happening that it will immediately smooth out. Initially I thought it was a tie rod or something suspension/steering related, or maybe a bad axle, but wouldn't it keep shaking even in neutral if that was the case? Any and all help would be appreciated!

My plan is to eventually turn my business into just such a trade school. One step at a time, though....

I tried motologic and had to cancel my subscription. I liked the interface and the information...the problem was a GROSS lack of coverage. There were many many vehicles not listed, and I'm not even talking about weird imports like AUDI or VW that I hardly ever work on anyway, I am talking about DOMESTIC vehicles from the past two decades. If I can't look up specs for a 97 Jeep Grand Cherokee or a 2001 Chevy Malibu then the whole system is worthless, regardless of how easy it is to use. The vehicles that they DID cover had a lot of good information, but if I have to supplement MotoLogic with another software just to get the coverage I need then it becomes useless. Overall I have been VERY happy with Mitchell ProDemand. The coverage is good, the user interface is ok, and the information is good. ALLDATA has gone to crap the best I can tell, I used to use it at another shop I worked at and it was good back then, but the last time I used it (last year) I couldn't find anything I needed. I think MotoLogic will be good when they get all the vehicles covered. My main parts supplier is Advance Auto and I have been very pleased with their company. If anyone gets Motologic keep us updated about whether the coverage has gotten better....

5 Star Auto Spa ~ I love your name by the way! Is that the actual name of your shop or just your screen name for this forum? It's very clever!

uh.... Because they cost a lot of money and don't really provide much of anything in the way of benefits to the certification holder. Is that too obvious an answer? I agree that ASE certifications don't HURT anyone, and they are perhaps valuable internally in the sense that it at least assures the certification holder has SOME CLUE about the basic principles of vehicle systems and repairs. If you are a big shop who just happens to have hundreds and hundreds of dollars lying around to buy a bunch of ASE certifications they by all means knock yourself out. For myself personally, however, I am in an early phase of my business where I am trying to figure out ways to scrimp money so that I can afford the proper EQUIPMENT that is going to make it possible for me to do my job and serve the customer. Dropping money on extra ASE certifications is very close to the BOTTOM of my priority list.

It is indeed a difficult issue. The problem, obviously, is the general public's (aka...consumer/customer's) lack of understanding about how the industry really works these days. The best way I have found to combat this misunderstanding is to explain it in as simple terms as possible to any customers who want to know and I also have found it most beneficial to not separate the diagnostic line item on my invoices. Instead I simply include the diagnostics as part of the repair. For instance, under the labor charges section of my invoice it may say something like: DIAGNOSE AND REPAIR EMISSION SYSTEM MALFUNCTION (CHECK ENGINE LIGHT) -- $150.00 scan vehicle for diagnostic codes replace oxygen sensor - bank 1 sensor 2 (post catalytic converter) This way the customer can see that the labor charge is for the whole repair and will be less likely to question it than if I phrase it as a separate $100 "DIAGNOSTIC FEE" line item. It also helps to use big technical terms like "catalytic converter" that the customer really doesn't understand. It helps drive home the point that YOU are the expert and they probably could not have figured this problem out and repaired it themselves. This eases peoples minds about paying YOU to do it. I hope this helps someone else. It has been very beneficial to me to do it this way.

I am ASE certified. As stated in the original post I think most common customers know just enough about ASE certification to know that it is supposedly a "good thing", but in all reality I have known many mechanics who were ASE certified that didn't know their head from the tail end of a crankshaft. For that reason I am really not in favor of the certification. Seems like a waste of money to me. I certified in several categories when I worked at a shop before (mainly because my boss paid for it) and I really don't think I was a better mechanic for it. Now that I own my own business I went ahead and recertified in ONE category just so that when people ask me "Are you ASE certified?" I can say "yes." That's all they ever ask...that's all they know enough to care about. No one has ever asked me before letting me have their car for a brake job "Are you ASE certified in Brake Repair?". I would be more in favor of hands on trade schools with actual training on what it's like to work on vehicles from diagnosing a DOA problem the minute it rolls in the bay to installing or repairing the part at fault. If we had schools like that which produced QUALITY techs then we would have a resource from which to select QUALITY employees who would have already been working on cars for a couple years and would know what was going on instead of these kids coming up who aced every ASE test (by studying a book) but have very little actual experience in the field. We would be able to hire employees that could generate revenue from the first week they are hired instead of having to be trained for a couple of years in ACTUAL auto repair before they really are able to sustain themselves.

I am a one-man-show sole proprietor just getting started in the business world. I pay myself peanuts. *lol*

I have seen that one, just can't really find much info from anyone who has actually used it for automotive application.

A lot of the hardest jobs pay the least amount of money. Think manual labor. The problem right now with our industry, as I see it, is that we are caught in the middle between being a "manual labor" industry and a "technical knowledge" industry. Up until recently, automobile repair was more about brawn than brains, these days not so much. A lot of the old timers who could wrestle the transmission out of an 76 Chevy are having difficulty adjusting to sitting at a computer researching wiring schematics and system operation theory for these newer vehicles before they can ever even touch a wrench or screwdriver. As you stated, you didn't pay that guy for the amount of TIME he spent working on your alarm system, what you actually were paying him was reimbursement for all the money he had to spend to gain the knowledge required to work on your alarm system. You felt cheated because his invoice was inaccurately itemized....which leads to my next question: Is the way we are itemizing our OWN invoices contributing to our customers feelings of being ripped off by US?

Well, I am a new business owner and so I may very well be the LEAST qualified to answer this question. I will say, though, that one of the things I MOST LIKE about this industry and part of why I decided to start an Auto Repair business instead of something else is because in this line of work you literally have the ability to start the business with very little or no expenses up front. To me $40k sounds like ALOT of money up front for you to not be getting very much of the high end equipment that you will eventually want to have for your business. If you were buying his company name and customer base and felt reasonably sure that you could maintain or improve the same level of business and profit that he was already making then that might be a different story, but for what it sounds like you are wanting to do I think you would be a lot better off finding your own place, starting from scratch and using that 40K as seed money to start YOUR business. You can always build up slow....seems to me like too many shops try to open up with all the most high tech and expensive equipment from the get-go and end up flopping because they can't make the payments. Build up your customer base FIRST (my opinion) and you can always gradually add services and equipment as you grow.

I prefer to keep my system pretty simple. I have a file box with copies of all outgoing invoices organized by date with the parts receipts used for that particular repair stapled to the invoice. The electronic copies of the invoices are saved in my computer with the name and date as the file name so that they are automatically organized for me by name and then date of repair (example file name would be "Smith, Jerry 2013-07-02"). This system seems to be working very well for me. If I need to look up warranty on a part or pull a customer's previous repair invoice I simply find their name listed on my computer and the repair date linked to that file name tells me exactly what file folder to pull the paper invoice from my file box out of.