Almost done with ATI

Bob K · October 3, 2016

I will have met the 30 month commitment to this consulting company in Feb 2017. I'm wondering if anyone here has had any trouble with them when exiting?

xrac · October 3, 2016

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Bob K · October 3, 2016

The most helpful part was fixing parts margin and determining what my labor rate should be. The on site classes are very good. The online portal you enter your weekly sales data into often leaves you feeling like you're not making progress because the bar is set so high. There's so much to say, but in retrospect, it hasn't been worth the 1,911.00 per month. Going forward, I wouldn't pay more than 500.00 per month for consulting and wouldn't commit to any more than 12 months.

mmotley · October 3, 2016

Would HIGHLY recommend RLO. $1,900/month is crazy!!!

Edit: If you want, PM me with any specific questions you may have

Edited October 3, 2016 by mmotley

HarrytheCarGeek · October 3, 2016

$1,911.00? Really?

What is it that they do for almost two grand a month?

xrac · October 3, 2016

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mmotley · October 3, 2016

I won't go publicly posting rates, but last time I spoke with Elite, they were less than $1,911. User mspec works with Elite, you can probably send him a PM for more details. I'm also curious what ATI was doing for that price, to make sure we're comparing apples to apples

mspecperformance · October 3, 2016

ATI has a 30 month reconstruction program (they call it something like that). I am assuming they put together this program from their experience with many shops and taken the biggest successes and the common failures they have seen. The issue I have with this is that every business and every person is different. I don't care what anyone says, what works for 100,000 people still might not work for you in your situation/market/demographic etc. As I understand it ATi has been accused of being "cookie cutter".

They have also helped a lot of shops and shop owners out there so to each his own.

In regards to Elite, I am a client with them. I have nothing but GREAT things to say about them. If anyone has any particular questions you can always msg me.

Elon Block · October 4, 2016

Here are a couple of things to evaluate, in my opinion.

Most consulting and coaching companies can help you to understand your numbers.

The big difference between the various companies comes down to their philosophy
on how to improve those numbers.

The improvements usually fall into a couple of areas. For example, your pricing.
And your service advisors ability to sell on Value - not Price.

My suggestion would be to interview the prospective companies and see if their

philosophy matches yours, in...

1) How you want to do business and...
2) How you want your service advisor communicating with/servicing your customers.

Because that's where you're going to see a lot of differences.

ATLAuto · October 4, 2016

Would HIGHLY recommend RLO. $1,900/month is crazy!!!

Edit: If you want, PM me with any specific questions you may have

Never heard of RLO. Just had to look them up. Are you using them?

In regards to Elite, I am a client with them. I have nothing but GREAT things to say about them. If anyone has any particular questions you can always msg me.

We are on Elite's email list, which has been PHENOMENAL. We are considering using them based purely on the advice given in their emails. If you're not on their list, I highly recommend it.

mmotley · October 5, 2016

Never heard of RLO. Just had to look them up. Are you using them?

Yes, I have taken 2 of their training courses and am currently in their coaching program. Looking to join one of their 20 groups eventually. I can say every penny I spent with RLO was well worth it. No regrets... Well, I regret not signing up sooner.

Bob K · October 6, 2016

Anyone here used Auto Profit Masters RPM system by the Keller Brothers out of Colorado?

Shopcat · October 6, 2016

Bob K, Did you get your money's worth with ATI ? I know $1911.00 is a lot of money, but was it profitable for you? Is there long term improvement? I've often wondered about these long term programs.

Bob K · October 8, 2016

Shopcat, I have benefited from them. Some of what they've taught me has helped. Parts margin and labor margin have improved. My leadership abilities have improved, my customer experience has improved. Now the bad. I am in rural upstate NY and because my shop is now the highest priced option of 15 independent shops and 3 small new car dealers in a 10 mile radius , I have noticed my customer base slip away to the cheaper options. I used to service 40-50 cars a week and now I see 25 to 35 cars. This forces us to sell so much more per car. Coach says a higher ARO is all I need to worry about not the cars. He says I am not estimating high enough. Im at about 300 aro. My small town with an average income of 35k cannot afford to support a 93 per hr shop. Btw. Shops in my market are 55-75 per. Im confident none of my competitors are using a parts matrix like I am. Asked my parts supplier and he said nobody in town charges like I do. It's not a level paying field because the other shops in my market are not educating themselves to charge more. So with sales and car count shrinking, im thrilled to be done paying them almost 2 k per month. They're the reason I have to work so hard. Again, their answer is that I don't estimate and sell high enough. I've been a tech for almost 30 years and my lead tech for 35 years. I think I'm qualified to determine what my customer's need and estimate /recommend properly and honestly. Lesson- Take advice but adapt it to your market. What works in big cities with higher incomes don't work the same in small towns.

mspecperformance · October 8, 2016

Shopcat, I have benefited from them. Some of what they've taught me has helped. Parts margin and labor margin have improved. My leadership abilities have improved, my customer experience has improved. Now the bad. I am in rural upstate NY and because my shop is now the highest priced option of 15 independent shops and 3 small new car dealers in a 10 mile radius , I have noticed my customer base slip away to the cheaper options. I used to service 40-50 cars a week and now I see 25 to 35 cars. This forces us to sell so much more per car. Coach says a higher ARO is all I need to worry about not the cars. He says I am not estimating high enough. Im at about 300 aro. My small town with an average income of 35k cannot afford to support a 93 per hr shop. Btw. Shops in my market are 55-75 per. Im confident none of my competitors are using a parts matrix like I am. Asked my parts supplier and he said nobody in town charges like I do. It's not a level paying field because the other shops in my market are not educating themselves to charge more. So with sales and car count shrinking, im thrilled to be done paying them almost 2 k per month. They're the reason I have to work so hard. Again, their answer is that I don't estimate and sell high enough. I've been a tech for almost 30 years and my lead tech for 35 years. I think I'm qualified to determine what my customer's need and estimate /recommend properly and honestly. Lesson- Take advice but adapt it to your market. What works in big cities with higher incomes don't work the same in small towns.

Hi Bob,

I think some of what you are saying is right but I think you are approaching it with the wrong mindset. I can relate to being in a market where no one else is operating their business properly. Many shops in my area do not, hell I think most of them still hand write tickets and don't have a shop management system and I'm in NYC!

2 important metrics as you already know is Car Count and ARO. If you have a high car count, your ARO doesn't have to be super high to make gross dollars. The problem with that model is you have to ensure you are keeping your car count high and your shop work flow on point to move all those cars. It can cause more undue stress. The other model is a low car count and higher ARO. You are generally less stressed however your inspection, estimating and sales process has to be PRO and you have to have a high value driven model. You will only be attracting the top clientele in your area which will reduce your car count but give you the opportunity to work with better clients.

Maybe look into a 20 group instead of a coaching program. The costs are generally less and its more peer learning with a facilitator.

HarrytheCarGeek · October 8, 2016

Lesson- Take advice but adapt it to your market.

This is the art about being a professional business owner. Glad you figured this out.

It is my impression most techs that become business owners, they have a very difficult time transitioning to a profit making mentality. The other thing I notice, that those that are extremely greedy get into trouble by doing shady stuff and end up just stealing from their customers.

I had a very steep learning curve, mostly because I wanted to do high end vehicles, and fixing the high end vehicles was not the problem, it was charging those customers the amounts that I could charge them that I had an issue with.

Eventually I understood that Suzy Cashier at the local super market cannot pay me what Jack Bucks CEO can pay me to maintain his toy 1995 Supra Twin Turbo.

edit: a word.

Edited October 8, 2016 by HarrytheCarGeek

Scott Osborn · October 9, 2016

I will have met the 30 month commitment to this consulting company in Feb 2017. I'm wondering if anyone here has had any trouble with them when exiting?

Bob,

We "Graduated" from ATI in 2006 with the "Shop of the Year" award. Back then it was a 24 month agreement and then we added another 12 months as they started up their Mastermind Group. We learned a lot, it was a great experience and a real eye opener for my wife and I. I have a lot of good things to say about the program as it was 10 years ago. I haven't stayed in touch with them much since then. The only "Trouble" I can say to beware of when exiting, is to think that you're done learning and falling back on old habits.

After we graduated, we were looking to move to the next level and knew that we still wanted to have someone hold our feet to the fire to keep getting better and not fall back on old habits. We tried RLO for a short time and then when Bob Cooper from Elite and Jim Murphy put together the PRO Service Program in 2008, we jumped in and have continued with them, I don't see leaving until I retire. The team of professionals is unsurpassed, their ethics and commitment to your success is always first, you're never left wondering what you paid for. As far as the level of shop owners, out of 90 shops, I haven't seen one dud. They go through a screening process that makes sure you're a good fit for the group and that they're a good fit for you. A very positive experience. Feel free to give me a call if you have any questions.

rpllib · October 9, 2016

Bob

I have some experience in what you are finding with reduced car count due to running your business properly. We started down this road 15 years ago in a market that ranks 2.5 times lower potential then yours. Interestingly, two people on this thread commented on the markets they do business in, one from each end of the scale. Bob, you are from one of the lowest potential markets I have measured out of 1500 or so markets and mspec is from one of the highest potential markets. Curious how we all have similar challenges yet the solutions may require a somewhat different approach. In Bob's case, the outcome should have been completely predictable by ATI. It would not have been so obvious to ATI if the were thinking that Bob's market is the same as mspec's, and everything works the same regardless of the retail setting the shop is in. In mpsec's case, from my point of view, I would be happy to have my competitors be as backwards as possible, because their is a minimum level that many customers are willing to deal with, and the ones I consider higher value understand that it costs more to offer more. That is not to say that mpsec doesn't have an incredible amount of competition, like i can't even fathom, but i suspect his real competitors are organizations similar to his in offering, of which there are likely more than enough.

If i have a challenge with training organizations, it is that they refuse to actively use accurate market potential to improve the outcome for their clients. They don't have to break it down to 100 different market segments, but their are 3 or 4 market levels that could make a difference if these organizations would use and understand them. Their coaches are no different than any of us, they know the market they came from and learn about nuances of other markets from us, while we pay them. Once you been around a lot of multi store owners with 20, 40, 60 or even 100 locations, you quickly learn that what works well long term in one market may not be so effective in others. Same owners, operationally similar process, same 8 bay facilities with sales ranging from 350k to 2.5m a year.

There must be something with the market that causes that kind of range

Randy

Midas, Kalkaska

mlilley1 · October 9, 2016

I have only good things to say about ATI. I completed the 30 month program and continue now as an alumni and with a 20 group which is fantastic. Only wish we could get together even more often. I've had the same couch since I started. The investment was a lot but the ROI was dependent on how hard I wanted to push myself to work the KPI's. The increase has been more than enough to offset the investment and I stay with them because I still feel that there are areas that I can improve on and without the couching I'm not sure how hard I would push myself. One of the biggest benefits is the training for service managers and service advisers. i feel that the staff at ATI is a hard working group. my two cents.

Hands On · December 30, 2017

On 10/5/2016 at 7:17 PM, Bob K said:

Anyone here used Auto Profit Masters RPM system by the Keller Brothers out of Colorado?

I used it for a bit and got some good info. I imagine if you fiind the right coach things could go well. One downside is a lot of features are alla carte on top of your monthly fee so to get all the benefits you will be paying a lot of money.

AndersonAuto · January 9, 2018

On 10/5/2016 at 8:17 PM, Bob K said:

Anyone here used Auto Profit Masters RPM system by the Keller Brothers out of Colorado?

I used them a number of years ago. I actually talked to them yesterday because I need a bit of custom software built, and I need someone who understands automotive numbers.

Not sure what their current fee structure looks like, but back when I used them it was $2000 a month and everything was done over the phone and looking at numbers I had to put into their RPM toolkit. It was also a 24 month commitment, so a lot of money for the program. I can't say anything bad about them, but I will say that I feel I outgrew the coaching I was getting at the end. The main focus was on the sales end of the business, but we spent little to no time on the expense side. I got more than my money's worth from them, and I was finally making money from my shop, but I didn't continue with them because I needed to focus on other parts of my business.