The little things..

integritytrans · October 15, 2015

Hello to all!

I am the owner in my auto repair shop and also the service writer as well. At times I feel guilty in a way charging for the small things such as labor to install air filters or cabin filters, or to install batteries or to not charge an inspection fee especially if the customer is a previous customer.

I know we must charge diagnostics fees and those sure to get charged as well, dont get me wrong.

To what exact are you guys charging for every little thing? I know it is our right to, but is there a line drawn?

Thanks in advance

mspecperformance · October 15, 2015

The "little" things are still service. Your technician had to take the time to perform the service for your customer. I don't think very many places in the world offer services consistently for free. If we are talking about replacing a set of wipers then I understand. When you go into replacing filters and batteries (sometimes replacing batteries are a BEAR) or performing diagnostic work for free I think you should reevaluate your thinking. Diagnostics for one are one of the most expensive services any shop offers. The tools are the most expensive and constantly have to be updated and subscriptions have to be paid annually. Also the technician assigned to diagnostic is usually the highest paid and highest trained tech. With that in mind I wouldn't want to give that a way for free, I spent a lot of money on my diag tools and tech! Also in regards to filters and batteries... I have a 5 minute rule. If it takes 5 minutes or less to take care of I don't see why we can offer it to our clients complimentary. If it takes more than 5 minutes and they have to use more than a screw driver then I am looking to charge for my services.

Another thing to think about is how your technicians are getting paid. Assuming if your techs get paid salary, you as the owner and service writer want them to be as productive as possible. You have no concern with other than keeping them busy and keeping the customer happy. If your techs are getting flat rate then there lies a problem. They will not want to do a ton of free work without seeing time next to job lines. I ran into this problem first hand when I switched over to flat rate. I immediately found the problem by looking in the mirror. We were giving so much money in labor away because I didn't want to charge for things I thought were a piece of cake. Since then we have charged appropriately and my techs get paid more, our shop makes more money and our clients are still giving us rave reviews.

Thats just my 2c.

P.S. I reread your post and I saw that you charge for diag but I felt it was valuable to leave my comments about diag in my post.

Edited October 15, 2015 by mspecperformance

HarrytheCarGeek · October 15, 2015

This may help, think about it this way. What if you had to hire an apprentice just to do the little things all day to keep good customer service.

Say you would have to pay him $10/h plus overhear taxes at 40%, 10 x 1.4 = $14/h cost.

Marking that up x 3 for the time that he is idle when there are no customers 14 x 3 = $42.00/h

So let's say he can change a pair of wipers in 20 minutes $42/60=$0.70 $0.7x20= $14.00

So just add $14 to a pair of wiper blades.

Quite simple once you get used to doing it and it greatly benefits your bottom line.

alfredauto · October 17, 2015

I'm not questioning the costs of the little things, but if I was a retail customer and got charged $14 to put on a pair of wipers that would be the last time I entered your shop. Its simply not customary. Why not just charge (cost of blade + $7) each for the blades with free install? Same with air filters. But if all the shops charge labor in your area to do these things then by all means charge.

I do like the 5 minute rule. The flat rate guys might complain if there's no tenths they don't work but remind them if there's no customers there's no job for them.

HarrytheCarGeek · October 17, 2015

but if I was a retail customer and got charged $14 to put on a pair of wipers that would be the last time I entered your shop. Its simply not customary. Why not just charge (cost of blade + $7) each for the blades with free install? Same with air filters.

I didn't think I needed to be overspecific, I agree with you everythings is in the presentation, a "show" if you will.

I would sell the wiper set as a kit with pricing being "installed", or like you say, I would just add the $7 bucks to the unit itself.

for example my cost per blade being $3.50, I would double it to $7.00 given that the local autozone sell the lowest blade at $10, I would offer the installed kit priced at "$34.95+tax" installed.

Marksas · October 17, 2015

We have somewhat of a 5 minute rule but we also don't allow any parking lot fixes. i.e the tech or service writer to go take care of something in the front parking lot. When we perform a free repair we usually hand the customer 2 business cards and tell them to just give them to a friend or make a post on social media.

As far as wipers go, we will comp them on occasion but for the most part we charge a flat $19.95 for the pair of standard blades. I don't know what or if others charge but I suspect the majority of the local shops do. If the customer thinks it's too expensive they can go down the street to the auto parts store and purchase and install them, we never take offense and I would say about 99% of the time we install them.

Owners usually make terrible service writers because they tend to give to much away. I've been guilty of this and since I grew up and have been very active in the community where my shop is , everybody is my "friend". Best thing I did is stop writing service. If someone comes in and ask for me and my "gatekeeper" lets them get to me then I just take them and introduce them to one of my service writers and explain that they will take excellent care of them. I explain that they are excellent at what they do as well as much more knowledgable and up to date on service requirements than I am. I tell them I am very good at running the business and am not so good at fixing cars or writing service and that's why I hire great people.

skm · October 18, 2015

This may help, think about it this way. What if you had to hire an apprentice just to do the little things all day to keep good customer service.

Say you would have to pay him $10/h plus overhear taxes at 40%, 10 x 1.4 = $14/h cost.

Marking that up x 3 for the time that he is idle when there are no customers 14 x 3 = $42.00/h

So let's say he can change a pair of wipers in 20 minutes $42/60=$0.70 $0.7x20= $14.00

So just add $14 to a pair of wiper blades.

Quite simple once you get used to doing it and it greatly benefits your bottom line.

well we give wiper install for free.. only takes a minute. I think if it takes 20 minutes $14.00 is fair , but if it really takes 20 minutes there lies your problem you need to hire better techs... (just having fun don't take it seriously)

xrac · October 18, 2015

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5 Star Auto Spa · October 18, 2015

What if a customer just wants you to pull the codes for a check engine light and they do NOT want diagnostic work performed. Do you all charge for that?

HarrytheCarGeek · October 18, 2015

What if a customer just wants you to pull the codes for a check engine light and they do NOT want diagnostic work performed. Do you all charge for that?

To generate traffic into the stores, we offer to read the codes for free. To test further we do charge. For example, we have been successful with q three tiered system, at an hourly rate, a flat $89.95 to test a particular system systematically, and a flat $149.95 to find the exact problem.

John Pearson · October 19, 2015

Ever have an "ASE Master Tech" brake a BMW windshield while changing wiper blades? It happened to me.

I did this on a service drive showing a customer how to do it because they asked me to when I was working at a Volvo dealer. OOPS, I paid for that one and I was a tech at the time.

mspecperformance · October 19, 2015

What if a customer just wants you to pull the codes for a check engine light and they do NOT want diagnostic work performed. Do you all charge for that?

That is a red flag there. I would find out why the customer doesn't actually want to know what his problem. Maybe they have this idea that a fault code is going to tell them everything they need to repair the problem? It would be our jobs to educate that customer that that isn't the case. When you ask a lot of questions about a particular problem and then explain that a problem can be more complicated than what a scanner reads out you have the opportunity to convert a customer. If it is the case for instance of the customer just want to know if its say a evap code that isnt going to kill him if he doesnt fix right away then scan it for free with a smile and give him 2 business cards.

HarrytheCarGeek · October 19, 2015

well we give wiper install for free.. only takes a minute. I think if it takes 20 minutes $14.00 is fair , but if it really takes 20 minutes there lies your problem you need to hire better techs... (just having fun don't take it seriously)

Yes, I get it.

On another note, talking about storage. I charge for storage from $25 a day to $49.95 a day.

I do enjoy this business immensely, but I am in it for the business, that is to say to make a profit.

Do this exercise for shts and giggles, figure out the max profit your shop can give you on a monthly, weekly and daily basis if it was running at 100% efficiency. Then compare that to your present numbers. On the other hand, also figure out how much is your shop costing you have to keep it if you have the doors closed and you are not receving any revenue. Very enlighthing experience...

LynxStarAuto · November 1, 2015

Maybe I'm jaded, maybe I'm extremely selfish, and narcissistic, but I do not believe in free anything. I see it like this. The moment you give a customer a freebie, they will come to expect that from you every single time. I feel this devalues your work, and starts a vicious cycle where the customer feels they are entitled, and "owed" by you. The way I see it, if you bring me your car it is because you do not pocesses the skills, ability, knowledge, and equipment required to do the job yourself. You need ME and I am going to charge you for it. Granted fairly, and I'm going to make it as easy and convenient for you to pay me. That's why I take cash, check, CC, PayPal, or a combination of those. I'm going to give you honest, guaranteed work, but I'm going to charge you for it.

Somethings don't look right on an invoice, or are a hard sell. I get this. As was mentioned wiper blades. Just because I didn't list an installation charge for wiper blade R&R doesn't mean I didn't charge you. That's what list prices and markups are for.

With diagnostics it's the same deal. Diagnostics are my pride and joy. I love engine and electrical diagnostics. Not only that, it's coveted in our industry. How many techs out there really know what they are doing with a scantool or a scope? Not many. No way am I giving that away for free. I charge 120.00 (nice to see some ppl charge more. I may increase my rate) for this and I get to the root of the problem, and guarantee what I call is the problem. Code reading in this industry is a waste of time and an insult in my opinion. Rarely do you fix a car simply by reading codes. The person who believes this then has no respect or appreciation for my work and abilities. It's never as simple as an AFR sensor, or MAF sensor. The customer does not see the leg work. All they see is what you charge them on the invoice, and the end result with their vehicle. As stated, a customer needs to be trained, and educated that a warning light means "take it to a professional". They also need to be informed on what it takes to call out a particular fault or part. Code reading is not going to get you there in most instances. It's why vehicles are so commonly misdiagnosed on a day to day bases. I explain all of this, and if a customer still insists, then I respectfully point them in the direction of the nearest auto parts store who does do it for free, because I won't. If a customer doesn't respect what I do for a living, then I can't expect them to properly compensate me for what I do for a living. Quite honestly, I don't want that type of customer in my bays. F'em. There will be others who do.

skm · November 1, 2015

Maybe I'm jaded, maybe I'm extremely selfish, and narcissistic, but I do not believe in free anything. I see it like this. The moment you give a customer a freebie, they will come to expect that from you every single time. I feel this devalues your work, and starts a vicious cycle where the customer feels they are entitled, and "owed" by you. The way I see it, if you bring me your car it is because you do not pocesses the skills, ability, knowledge, and equipment required to do the job yourself. You need ME and I am going to charge you for it. Granted fairly, and I'm going to make it as easy and convenient for you to pay me. That's why I take cash, check, CC, PayPal, or a combination of those. I'm going to give you honest, guaranteed work, but I'm going to charge you for it.

Somethings don't look right on an invoice, or are a hard sell. I get this. As was mentioned wiper blades. Just because I didn't list an installation charge for wiper blade R&R doesn't mean I didn't charge you. That's what list prices and markups are for.

With diagnostics it's the same deal. Diagnostics are my pride and joy. I love engine and electrical diagnostics. Not only that, it's coveted in our industry. How many techs out there really know what they are doing with a scantool or a scope? Not many. No way am I giving that away for free. I charge 120.00 (nice to see some ppl charge more. I may increase my rate) for this and I get to the root of the problem, and guarantee what I call is the problem. Code reading in this industry is a waste of time and an insult in my opinion. Rarely do you fix a car simply by reading codes. The person who believes this then has no respect or appreciation for my work and abilities. It's never as simple as an AFR sensor, or MAF sensor. The customer does not see the leg work. All they see is what you charge them on the invoice, and the end result with their vehicle. As stated, a customer needs to be trained, and educated that a warning light means "take it to a professional". They also need to be informed on what it takes to call out a particular fault or part. Code reading is not going to get you there in most instances. It's why vehicles are so commonly misdiagnosed on a day to day bases. I explain all of this, and if a customer still insists, then I respectfully point them in the direction of the nearest auto parts store who does do it for free, because I won't. If a customer doesn't respect what I do for a living, then I can't expect them to properly compensate me for what I do for a living. Quite honestly, I don't want that type of customer in my bays. F'em. There will be others who do.

I agree with you on the check engine lights and the amount of Techs out there that know how to use a scope or a scanner and diagnose them properly, As for where I work I know we undercharge for diagnostics, we use to charge and hour then we got a few "mechanics" who started telling people half and hour and of course they did not know what they are doing. I feel the same as you when customers come to me with a code someone pulled or say can't you just hook a machine to it and it tells you what is wrong.. I then tell them to think of a code as a number on a door, you open that door and there is a long hall way with doors up and down both sides of it. Behind one of those doors lies your problem I need to start ruling out each of those doors till I find the door causing the problem. It will take me some time to go through it all. That is why I charge you for diagnostics. I also tell them what my scanner costs and why it costs so much and that the one that pulls the code for 29 bucks tells you nothing just gives your the main door number, Also I have the knowledge to know what I am looking at in a data stream know what all the sensors and actuators do when the come in to play and how the computer reacts to things it sees. If they still insist after my explanation to them wasting my time I then do as you do and tell them to go else where, where they can get the code pulled for free and let them diagnose it.. they usually end up coming back ..

LynxStarAuto · November 1, 2015

SKM, I'm new to these forums, but have done a lot of browsing. I hope to not come off as intrusive or nosy, but seeing many of your posts, I'm going to say you need to take the plunge my friend. Stop procrastinating, and over thinking things and just do it. Running a shop is not rocket science. You sound a lot like I did just 4 years ago. Stop wasting your talents, and time with a place that doesn't appreciate them. Use that negligence as fuel to drive you to make the best for yourself, and make them regret not respecting or appreciating your work ethic.

skm · November 1, 2015

SKM, I'm new to these forums, but have done a lot of browsing. I hope to not come off as intrusive or nosy, but seeing many of your posts, I'm going to say you need to take the plunge my friend. Stop procrastinating, and over thinking things and just do it. Running a shop is not rocket science. You sound a lot like I did just 4 years ago. Stop wasting your talents, and time with a place that doesn't appreciate them. Use that negligence as fuel to drive you to make the best for yourself, and make them regret not respecting or appreciating your work ethic.

LynxStarAuto, You are not being intrusive nor nosy. In fact I will take that as a compliment. yes I do procrastinate a bit especially coming to this time of the year when things tend to slow down for us.. But you are right . I am looking for a place I have the local tool guys, parts houses, and a few companies that stock our shop keeping and eye and ear open for me . I am trying to find a shop that is already equipped maybe where some one is ready to retire or just wants out of the business. I was planning on getting a commercial realtor involved maybe in February or March as people have felt the pressure of the slower season here.

LynxStarAuto · November 1, 2015

LynxStarAuto, You are not being intrusive nor nosy. In fact I will take that as a compliment. yes I do procrastinate a bit especially coming to this time of the year when things tend to slow down for us.. But you are right . I am looking for a place I have the local tool guys, parts houses, and a few companies that stock our shop keeping and eye and ear open for me . I am trying to find a shop that is already equipped maybe where some one is ready to retire or just wants out of the business. I was planning on getting a commercial realtor involved maybe in February or March as people have felt the pressure of the slower season here.

Why not start off mobile? That is what I did for many years before I decided to get serious with a brick and mortar location. I bought a van and worked out of that thing for longer than I can remember. Ironically, you know who my main customers were? Auto repair shops. They would call me over when they had a car they couldn't fix, and their techs just couldn't get the right roll of the parts changer dice. I would charge the same 120.00 I do now, and be done in 30-40 minutes in many cases. I would pull out my scanner and scope, wiring diagrams, get to testing and say "change this" grab my 120.00 and be on to the next one. If a vehicle needed programming I would do that for 240.00. I built quite a good reputation, and got good referrals. Many shops would call me. I got business cards made. i would have them at the ready at all locations I frequented like auto parts stores, junk yards, and even people I would run into on my daily routine. I would sign up to car forums and promote my services. I even used craigslist. Once you get that ball rolling, referrals and word of mouth go a long way. Eventually it got to the point where I could not meet the demand. It was impossible for me to be at two places at the same time. Plus even if I tried, crazy Miami traffic would impede on my travelling. That's why I took the leap, but for years I did pretty good for myself as a mobile tech working out of a Ford E-Series van.

Plus the risk is not as high. You don't need much capital to start up a mobile repair business. If it doesn't workout for you, the hole will not be that deep. But truthfully, it's very hard for it not to work out. You fall into a category of servicemen which are in very high demand. Once ppl see you are legit, they WILL come. Factor in that working out a van means less overhead, which means your prices will be very hard to compete with, and you got a recipe for success.

FROGFINDER · November 2, 2015

Ever have an "ASE Master Tech" break a BMW windshield while changing wiper blades? It happened to me.

Yes and he tried to not say anything because it was so low on the windshield.

I had the windshield replaced for the customer that made my shop owner mad but it was the right thing to do. Later the tech offered to pay us back for it so I was right in the end.

skm · November 2, 2015

Why not start off mobile? That is what I did for many years before I decided to get serious with a brick and mortar location. I bought a van and worked out of that thing for longer than I can remember. Ironically, you know who my main customers were? Auto repair shops. They would call me over when they had a car they couldn't fix, and their techs just couldn't get the right roll of the parts changer dice. I would charge the same 120.00 I do now, and be done in 30-40 minutes in many cases. I would pull out my scanner and scope, wiring diagrams, get to testing and say "change this" grab my 120.00 and be on to the next one. If a vehicle needed programming I would do that for 240.00. I built quite a good reputation, and got good referrals. Many shops would call me. I got business cards made. i would have them at the ready at all locations I frequented like auto parts stores, junk yards, and even people I would run into on my daily routine. I would sign up to car forums and promote my services. I even used craigslist. Once you get that ball rolling, referrals and word of mouth go a long way. Eventually it got to the point where I could not meet the demand. It was impossible for me to be at two places at the same time. Plus even if I tried, crazy Miami traffic would impede on my travelling. That's why I took the leap, but for years I did pretty good for myself as a mobile tech working out of a Ford E-Series van.

Plus the risk is not as high. You don't need much capital to start up a mobile repair business. If it doesn't workout for you, the hole will not be that deep. But truthfully, it's very hard for it not to work out. You fall into a category of servicemen which are in very high demand. Once ppl see you are legit, they WILL come. Factor in that working out a van means less overhead, which means your prices will be very hard to compete with, and you got a recipe for success.

mobile is not my thing.. I have been at the same station for 25 years . I am not about to start working on the streets my body will not take that.. Thanks for the suggestion though

davine4real · November 2, 2015

No freebies! code scan is $25 or take it to part store. wipers installation included in price. bring your own and pay $10 and up. filters not free. labor is individual line item. returning customers get the perception of a freebie....they pay me well for the repairs they do get so they have "paid it forward" so it all works out. New customers wanting freebies off the bat get the higher tier pricing if I notice it in time. a usual $200 job may cost them $275....but since their new customers, I'll do the job for only $225 😄. if I provide parts then the labor is at conservative rate $85 plus shop fees. if customer provides parts it's a little higher and a little more labor hours to compensate. so even if something appeared to be free, it's really not. they don't work for their bosses for free, and neither do I 😁

AJFA · November 7, 2015

_{What I have read I agree with mostly, we do not charge a labor time for wipers, I build it into the price, the good Bosch blades start at $12.95 & go to $21.95, we make $$$$ on lots of wiper installs, you better make $$$$ too. We aren't Wal-Mart nor do I want to be.}

_{We charge for light bulbs installed at flat rate time, we always suggest to replace headlight bulbs in pair$$$$, have you ever put a headlight bulb in a Civic, you better look up the flat rate time first! so}_{me of them you need to unbolt the bumper cover, 2.0, We always look up flat rate time first.}

_{CEL Diag. time, if they are a difficult customer & only want the codes read starts at $45.00, no diag. no time spent, only open hood & look at obvious, keeps them happy. Then we tell them what needs to be done next. More $$$$.}

_Dave

3PuttFever · December 3, 2015

Labor charges for little things depends how little they are in our shop. If they take more than 15 minutes then we charge parts + labor. Code reading? Sure, I tell them I can read their codes but that doesn't tell me what the problem is - that tells me what the code is reading. If you want me to diagnose it we 'start' at an hour. If it takes us less than 30 minutes we'll knock down the labor charge to be fair. We run into people all the time who claim the parts stores don't charge for diagnostics or that our real competition doesn't charge for diagnostic time but they're not being honest or they're ignorant. Most people understand and appreciate the explanation. Some don't and they usually find themselves going elsewhere.

alfredauto · December 5, 2015

The main problem with free cel scans is it never takes "real quick" like the customer wants. The customer pops in "hey can you check my code real quick" meaning he wants his car fixed real cheap and real quick. I try to dispel that myth at the counter. When the customer has to commit 2 hours for an appointment and $100 money it eliminates the time stealers. If I'm swamped or grumpy I just send them to Autozone if they want a free scan with my business card - here ya go call me if you want an accurate diagnosis. Usually 4 o2 sensors and three backyard shops later they call.

I do make exceptions, sometimes I'll plug in my mini scanner and see if its an evap code or something more serious, but once again I'm not diagnosing a camshaft correlation code in the parking lot so its back to square one. The point of the free scan is to show the customer I'm not charging them $100 to scan the code, I'm charging them to diagnose the problem.

GTS_Services · January 22, 2016

We have somewhat of a 5 minute rule but we also don't allow any parking lot fixes. i.e the tech or service writer to go take care of something in the front parking lot. When we perform a free repair we usually hand the customer 2 business cards and tell them to just give them to a friend or make a post on social media.

I like the business card idea, it seems like a great way to make a customer feel appreciated and referrals are still one of the best ways to find your ideal customers.