Dodged a bullet but what if?

[cdhowell]

Last Wednesday a long time customer brings in a little 90 Jeep wrangler. Says it squeals about 10 seconds when you first fire it cold. No big deal right. We inspect it but it never squeals. Move it to the yard at quitting time no squeal. First thing next morning no squeal. The belt was old and dry so we change it and check bearings on everything.

Call him up and now he says it was more of a metal to metal noise. 2 days of short trips and we still have no noise. I call the customer and have him come down. Maybe I am not hearing what you are. He can't get a noise. Jeep leaves on Friday.

Yesterday it come back on a tow truck. Rod straight thru the oil pan and he's upset with me. I explain we cannot diag a noise that he, or I cannot duplicate. After a quote to replace the motor he decide I should just buy it from him but thats not going to happen. I told him I would help him sell it but It was not my responsibility.

Now My wife, my self, and my tech all drove this thing trying to find this noise. I keep wondering if that rod let go when one of us was behind the wheel, How would we handle it? 25 years old but only 97k miles.

Has anyone had a similar situation?

 

 

 

[xrac]

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[skm]

I have one now that fits this post also the one about turning work down. I have a 2003 astro van that the customer has replaced the timing chain, cam sensor, crank sensor, tps, maf, and o2 sensors. The van runs rough but if he unplugs the tps it smooths out. I explained to him he is sending it into a limp mode so to speak. I took a quick look at it. First off the battery is very weak which is contributing to a lot of the rough start up once it runs a few seconds and gets proper voltage to things it starts to smooth out, but still a little wonky . Everything of what I can see of the data stream looks good . Has trouble code for crankshaft sync, so I tried to sync it through the scanner twice with no luck. I figure the guy has the timing chain off a tooth. The real problem is to sync this crankshaft sensor you need to do a WOT until it hits the rev limiter if it does not hit it there is a problem, well the biggest problem is the engine has 277,000 miles on it. Now for one I am not going to rev this thing any more to try to sync it I don't want to buy an engine, and I'm not going to tare it down to look at the timing chain, since he could not get the cover off (didn't know what he was doing) so he broke it and gooped it back together, it would take me a few hours just to get all the silicon off of it. I have a problem reving any engine no mater how many miles are on it, every time that piston goes from tdc to btc it has to come to a full stop and reverse direction, with out a load on the engine it is like tying a rock to a string and throwing it up in the air then as it reaches the end of the string yanking it back down.. Now at some point that rock is going to break the string just as the piston is going to brake the connecting rod. i can't stand to hear "techs" reveing engines the just tells me they don't really know what they are doing. Any way I called the customer explained to them I am not going any farther on the vehicle since I don't want to blow it up so it is better off going to the dealer let them blow it up I want to save my pennies.

[John Pearson]

I had a 2000 chevy blazer come in and the guy thought it was a water pump but it was really a bad rod knock. Thankfully we had it inside called him told him the engine was bad and the car was not worth putting money into and THEN we pulled it out. I say thankfully we did in that order because that stupid little crammed in there 4.3L took a shit on my floor as we were pulling it out. All of it Rods, oil pan, oil KABOOM.

 

The customer understood and wasnt that upset and we had his vehicle taken away to a salvage yard.

 

You dont even want to know about the mustang with the fiberglass hood that opened on a test drive what a nightmare.

[Mario]

I use to care but anymore I don't let the customers problems become mine. I didn't buy it, its not mine, I don't let them make their problems my problems.

[ncautoshop]

I didn't build it, buy it or break it. But I can fix it.....if you have enough money.

 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[alfredauto]

That's what we call "since ya" as in "ever since ya did my tires my heater doesn't work right".

[Marksas]

I just had one that I bought. 2005 Chevrolet Diesel with 355K miles. It was a learning experience or at least that's what I am chalking it up to. We installed a radiator and hoses before the customer was taking a trip pulling a 40' horse trailer with living quarters. The customer overheated the motor when his EGR cooler hose blew and he drove it a little too far. I had heard about the mishap through his girlfriend who is a very good friend of mine. I called him up on Monday since this happened on Sunday night. He explained that he had it towed to a dealership since it was late at night and wasn't sure he could get it in my lot. I asked what happened and he said he didn't notice a check engine light but got a warning of severe engine overheat. The wrecker driver thought it had a loose radiator hose which is when I made my first mistake. I told him if that is indeed the case then we have some liability in this and we stand behind our work.

The dealership threw us under the bus and told the customer that the water pump was leaking and that was the cause of the engine burning up and we should have checked it. They never even put water in it to see the EGR hose blown. I had the truck picked up, paid the towing, paid the "diagnostic" fee of $135 and thats where we found the hose was blown and that there was not a loose radiator hose. I did go back to the dealership and they agreed the customer is at fault but were instructed by the service manager to not say that to the customer. After looking at the freeze frame data, We found that he had a turbo issue which set a check engine light and the coolant temp was 217 degrees at the time. He was also driving 77mph in a pretty hilly area. I'm not sure of the sequence but the fuel rail temp was 260 degrees which tells me the block temp was well above that. The melted wiring harness sheathing was the next indicator.

I told the customer that I didn't feel we had any liability in this and that I didn't owe him anything and that anything I did would be out of the goodness of my heart. That's when it got ugly and the threats started coming. I pretty much left it at that and told him my reasoning and that the data that was initially provided to me was flawed. I listened to all the threats of lawsuits and social media posts. I just informed him that if that's route he chooses to take and that makes him happy then have at it. It just made me sick to my stomach since I would have to look at this guy at church and other social events because of his girlfriend. The only thing I felt we did wrong was not documenting the pressure check after replacing the radiator or documenting the seepage from the water pump. Everything on that truck had some seepage given the miles on it.

I thought about it and when the customer called back to threaten me some more I just offered him $4K for the truck. That just made him even more mad. After the customer cooled down and called back later he thought that would be best and we would never mention it again.

My reasoning was that if I would have never gone and had the truck picked up, we probably would have ended up putting a motor in it with a $1K deductible. If I would have just let my insurance handle it, it would not have gone through our E&O portion because we didn't do anything wrong. It would have gone under a different portion and we would have had a deductible plus would have had to deal with court issues. I then thought about the time I would spend addressing social media post and possible time in court and felt it would be best just to buy the truck, sell it as is. So in the end it will cost me a couple thousand.

The bad part is his girlfriend called me a couple days later and was unaware of all the details and just found out about it and was calling to apologize. She then told me she had broke up with him a few days earlier because he was bipolar and had serious anger issues along with a bit of a police record. I didn't say anything but thought, I wish I knew this a few days earlier as I probably would have handled it differently.

I figured after being in business for about 20 years and this is the first time something like this happened that it was just a small price to pay for for years of trouble free business. I explained to my manager and lead tech the reasoning for my decision, and why we must document everything. Although they didn't like the fact that I bought the truck they agreed with my reasoning.

[alfredauto]

I feel for you Marksas, this is the reason why so many shops close up. The customer is at fault, but wants to make it your problem. 77mph pulling a 40' horse trailer in the hills is hard. The egt's were obviously through the roof causing the damage. If the driver was paying attention he would have noticed the temp gauge and the trans temp climbing and pulled off to put some water in. The duramax holds 6 gallons so its not like it instantly burned up. Engine life expectancy of the LLY is 350k miles anyway, less if someone had a tuner on it. So add it all up and its your fault.

 

The way I feel is if I break it I buy it unless it was already broken.

Edited October 18, 2015 by alfredauto

[mspecperformance]

I just had one that I bought. 2005 Chevrolet Diesel with 355K miles. It was a learning experience or at least that's what I am chalking it up to. We installed a radiator and hoses before the customer was taking a trip pulling a 40' horse trailer with living quarters. The customer overheated the motor when his EGR cooler hose blew and he drove it a little too far. I had heard about the mishap through his girlfriend who is a very good friend of mine. I called him up on Monday since this happened on Sunday night. He explained that he had it towed to a dealership since it was late at night and wasn't sure he could get it in my lot. I asked what happened and he said he didn't notice a check engine light but got a warning of severe engine overheat. The wrecker driver thought it had a loose radiator hose which is when I made my first mistake. I told him if that is indeed the case then we have some liability in this and we stand behind our work.

The dealership threw us under the bus and told the customer that the water pump was leaking and that was the cause of the engine burning up and we should have checked it. They never even put water in it to see the EGR hose blown. I had the truck picked up, paid the towing, paid the "diagnostic" fee of $135 and thats where we found the hose was blown and that there was not a loose radiator hose. I did go back to the dealership and they agreed the customer is at fault but were instructed by the service manager to not say that to the customer. After looking at the freeze frame data, We found that he had a turbo issue which set a check engine light and the coolant temp was 217 degrees at the time. He was also driving 77mph in a pretty hilly area. I'm not sure of the sequence but the fuel rail temp was 260 degrees which tells me the block temp was well above that. The melted wiring harness sheathing was the next indicator.

I told the customer that I didn't feel we had any liability in this and that I didn't owe him anything and that anything I did would be out of the goodness of my heart. That's when it got ugly and the threats started coming. I pretty much left it at that and told him my reasoning and that the data that was initially provided to me was flawed. I listened to all the threats of lawsuits and social media posts. I just informed him that if that's route he chooses to take and that makes him happy then have at it. It just made me sick to my stomach since I would have to look at this guy at church and other social events because of his girlfriend. The only thing I felt we did wrong was not documenting the pressure check after replacing the radiator or documenting the seepage from the water pump. Everything on that truck had some seepage given the miles on it.

I thought about it and when the customer called back to threaten me some more I just offered him $4K for the truck. That just made him even more mad. After the customer cooled down and called back later he thought that would be best and we would never mention it again.

My reasoning was that if I would have never gone and had the truck picked up, we probably would have ended up putting a motor in it with a $1K deductible. If I would have just let my insurance handle it, it would not have gone through our E&O portion because we didn't do anything wrong. It would have gone under a different portion and we would have had a deductible plus would have had to deal with court issues. I then thought about the time I would spend addressing social media post and possible time in court and felt it would be best just to buy the truck, sell it as is. So in the end it will cost me a couple thousand.

The bad part is his girlfriend called me a couple days later and was unaware of all the details and just found out about it and was calling to apologize. She then told me she had broke up with him a few days earlier because he was bipolar and had serious anger issues along with a bit of a police record. I didn't say anything but thought, I wish I knew this a few days earlier as I probably would have handled it differently.

I figured after being in business for about 20 years and this is the first time something like this happened that it was just a small price to pay for for years of trouble free business. I explained to my manager and lead tech the reasoning for my decision, and why we must document everything. Although they didn't like the fact that I bought the truck they agreed with my reasoning.

 

 

I've been in similar situations. Few and far between but enough to make me sick when reading about your situation. Customers are very easily "inceptioned" by other shops, friends, family etc. This makes dealing with a customer that has lost your trust very very difficult. The other problem is proper documentation. 99% of the cars and customers we see are decent people and normal cars. We still need to properly document everything in order to help protect ourselves from the odd ball customer and the problem cars.

[PAPShop]

We replaced a blown head gasket on a 2003 Ford F350 diesel. After we finished, he was to bring in the truck after a couple days for a free follow up/adjustment. He did not. 3 weeks later, the truck is brought in needing 2 new injectors. The customer asked if it was wise to replace all on that side, since two went. We said yes and gave him the new estimate. Customer is a young twentysomething, and Mommy didn't come thru on paying for the repair, she paid for the head gasket repair. So he asked if he could make payments. Against our policy, we had no choice. He paid 1/3 down and was to make payments every two weeks and he left his 2004 Nissan Titan as collateral (it also needed work on it). He made one payment and didn't make another. Interest is accruing every two weeks, he calls after two months to find out how his truck is coming along. (insert laughter here) He was told the Nissan will not be touched until the Ford is paid off. He makes another payment saying his dad was supposed to have made payments, and questions the interest. The shop owner explains: the agreement we have with our bank that we don't make loans and they don't fix cars (someone on here said that, and it works) and he needs to clear this up quickly. Kid pays off the bill after 4 months. Two weeks later, truck is back in. A fuel line broke & we fix it. Daddy comes in and rips the shop owner because "the truck was fine until we started working on it". The shop owner apologized that he and his son did not communicate better and that everything was explained to his son, who approved the repairs. The shop owner then called the kid and told him to remove the 2004 Nissan truck sitting in the parking lot that was left for us to repair. The kid asked why, and was told....... because of your dad and his actions.

 

Tow truck was here this morning to remove the truck.......

[mspecperformance]

No good deed goes unpunished. When you set rules on how you do business stick with them. I have a soft spot for people with sob stories and I always get burned. Both employee and customer. Can't have that anymore.

[Custom Coach]

The ones I don't like are the customers who come back a year or more later complaining about a problem.

They claim they have hardly driven the car since it left my shop but you pull their file and really there is almost 5 to 10 thousand miles more than what I wrote the day the car arrived how do you explain this ?

I don't know but its still all your fault that it broke even though that's not what you fixed when it was here.

These are my (EVER SINCE) people, enough to drive you to drink sometimes 😲